My theory: The original Tsaesci were Men, but the serpents ate them and became them.

I feel like most people allow absolutely zero room for nuance when discussing the Tsaesci.

“They have legs on Alduin’s Wall, therefore they’re 100% human, and everything else is just propaganda. Oh, and their scales are actually armor.”

It’s the same boring hand-waving over and over again. I think there’s a far more interesting explanation that actually attempts to reconcile the existing lore rather than dismiss half of it.

My theory is that the Men of Akavir, as described in The Annotated Anuad, were the original Tsaesci. The serpents literally consumed them, biologically assimilated their characteristics, and inherited their name and identity.

Hear me out.

The Annotated Anuad vs. Mysterious Akavir

Both texts are associated with Michael Kirkbride, yet they seem to present contradictory accounts of the Tsaesci.

The Annotated Anuad explicitly identifies the Tsaesci of Akavir as Men descended from the Wandering Ehlnofey.

Meanwhile, Mysterious Akavir describes the Tsaesci as vampiric serpent-folk who consumed the Men of Akavir but still “kind of look like them.”

On the surface, these accounts seem incompatible. One identifies the Tsaesci as Men, while the other identifies them as the serpents who ate those Men.

But what if both accounts are telling us the truth?

What if the original Tsaesci really were Men, and the serpents became the Tsaesci by consuming them?

I’m suggesting that the serpents didn’t simply conquer the Men of Akavir. They assimilated them, acquiring their biological characteristics, their names, and eventually their civilization.

In other words, the Tsaesci we know today are not necessarily the original Tsaesci. They’re the beings that consumed the original Tsaesci and became them.

The Tsaesci Creation Myth practically begs for this interpretation

Consider Michael Kirkbride’s Tsaesci Creation Myth, particularly this passage:

“The final name was Tsaescence and we ate it to become it and there are no more variations.”

The entire creation myth revolves around consumption, names, and becoming something through the act of eating.

Now consider the word Tsaescence itself.

The suffix -escence refers to the state or process of becoming something.

Could Tsaescence literally represent the process of becoming Tsaesci?

My interpretation is that the serpents began as relatively primitive beings and gradually consumed their way up the food chain, acquiring the characteristics of increasingly complex lifeforms.

Eventually, they encountered the Men of Akavir.

They consumed them, assimilated their humanity, and took their name.

The Men of Akavir were the final form the serpents sought to become. They ate the Tsaesci to become the Tsaesci.

This also gives us an interesting way to interpret another detail from Mysterious Akavir.

After successfully consuming the Men of Akavir, the serpents attempted to consume the dragons.

But unlike the Men, the dragons apparently could not be consumed in the same way. The Tsaesci instead enslaved the Red Dragons, while the Black Dragons fled to Po Tun.

Why?

Perhaps dragons, being semi-divine beings, were fundamentally incompatible with this biological or metaphysical assimilation process.

The serpents could consume Men and become more human, but they couldn’t consume dragons and become dragons.

That’s speculative, obviously, but it fits the sequence described in the book.

The Tsaesci are probably a spectrum of human and serpentine characteristics

Mysterious Akavir doesn’t say the serpents became physically identical to the Men they consumed.

It says they “kind of look like them.”

I think that distinction is important.

What if the Tsaesci are essentially serpent-human hybrids, exhibiting varying degrees of assimilation?

Some might retain largely serpentine bodies. Others might possess humanoid torsos, limbs, and faces. Still others might appear almost entirely human.

This could explain why their descriptions vary so dramatically between sources.

People regularly dismiss 2920, The Last Year of the First Era because it’s historical fiction, despite its unmistakably serpentine depictions of the Akaviri Potentates.

But what about History of the Fighters Guild?

That book explicitly describes the Tsaesci as immortal snake-men and even suggests that their anatomy prevented them from wearing certain types of armor.

Are we supposed to dismiss that as propaganda too?

The humanoid depictions don’t invalidate the serpentine ones, and the serpentine depictions don’t invalidate the humanoid ones.

What if both are accurate representations of a species capable of assuming different degrees of human and serpentine form?

And then there’s Chevalier Renald

This is probably my favorite piece of supporting evidence.

Remanada describes how the snake-captain Vershu became Renald.

Not simply that he changed his name, but that he became Renald.

Then, in ESO, we actually meet Chevalier Renald.

He appears to be an ordinary human, yet he speaks mysteriously about shedding his old skin and eventually shedding another.

We have a character explicitly associated with a snake-captain becoming someone else, appearing human, and referencing the shedding of skins.

Kirkbride has also discussed the Tsaesci as beings that feed on language, giving the entire concept of consuming names and identities additional significance.

If an individual Tsaesci can undergo such a transformation, is it really that unreasonable to suggest that the entire Tsaesci civilization underwent a similar process?

What happened to Vershu on an individual level may have happened to the original Tsaesci on a civilizational level.

The serpents consumed the Men, assumed their characteristics, and eventually became the people whose name they inherited.

Renald may simply represent another iteration of that same process.

Why must we insist on one interpretation at the expense of everything else?

I have no problem accepting that human Akaviri existed. In fact, my theory depends on it.

What I don’t understand is why some people take the existence of human-looking Akaviri, humanoid armor, or the figures on Alduin’s Wall as definitive proof that the serpentine Tsaesci never existed.

Alduin’s Wall depicts humanoid Akaviri warriors. It doesn’t establish the biological characteristics of every Tsaesci, or even establish that every Akaviri depicted was a Tsaesci.

The same applies to Akaviri descendants in Tamriel. The existence of human Akaviri ancestry doesn’t automatically rule out a distinct serpentine population, especially when the lore explicitly discusses both the Men of Akavir and the serpents who consumed them.

And dismissing every description of serpentine anatomy as metaphor, propaganda, or artistic license seems especially unnecessary when the setting already contains considerably stranger forms of life.

I’m not claiming my theory is definitively correct.

I’m suggesting that the contradictions might be intentional, and that the solution could be found in the Tsaesci’s own mythology.

The Annotated Anuad tells us the original Tsaesci were Men.

Mysterious Akavir tells us the serpents ate those Men and came to resemble them.

The Tsaesci Creation Myth describes consuming names and becoming what was consumed.

Remanada gives us a snake-captain who becomes someone else, while ESO presents that character as apparently human.

And 2920 and History of the Fighters Guild preserve unmistakably serpentine descriptions.

My theory doesn’t require us to discard any of these accounts.

The original Tsaesci were Men.

The serpents consumed them.

And through that consumption, the serpents became Tsaesci.

I’d much rather explore that possibility than continue reducing one of the strangest civilizations in Elder Scrolls lore to ordinary humans wearing Japanese-inspired armor.

Can we allow a little more nuance in our theories about the Tsaesci?

I know we don't have much lore on them. But do you think they can cross the barriers to Mundus in full power? Or at least have an easier time compared to full daedra and daedric princes?

Hello there. Just wanted to share this thought I had.

I was thinking about the ramifications of ebony being the blood spilled from the Heart of Lorkhan after it was shot by Auriel into Vvardenfell, later forming Red Mountain.

You know how, in the games, you cannot loot daedric armor from dead dremora? (I think they eventually start dropping daedric in Oblivion, but I believe that's more of a thing with the leveled lists). Now, this could be (likely started as) a balancing measure so you don't get busted armor early-mid game, but I think a lore explanation can be found.

I believe the armor of dremora is actually straight-up part of them, and as such, since dremora struggle to stay in Nirn for a long time without something significant behind their presence such as Master Conjuration spells or an Oblivion Gate, when the dremora returns to Oblivion, their armor comes with them.

It is known that bound equipment are in fact lesser daedra, magically forced into the shape of a weapon or armor, hence why they take on the appeareance of daedric equipment in the games. So then, they must also return back to Oblivion when the spell ends.

What I propose, then, is that an incredible smith (aka, 90 Smithing in Skyrim) can in some way force a daedra/their essence (coming from the daedra heart used in the recipe) into the desired shape just like a Conjuration spell would, but instead of keeping them bound to Mundus through magical might, they do so by merging it with something aedric such as Lorkhan's blood. Aedra being bound to Mundus due to pouring their power into its creation, could stop something bound to them from exiting Mundus without something forcing them there, same way something can force daedra into Mundus (you could consider all the ways to go from Nirn to Oblivion the same as going from Oblivion to Nirn, just in the opposite direction).

Thanks for your attention, and I would love to hear your thoughts.

So I know in TES there are mere mortals capable of going face-to-face against actual gods, so idea of Mercer being able to take The Dragonborn out of all people isn't too far-fetched. But I apologize I'm not feeling it?

So first off, there is simply no evidence of that. Only physical confrontation between two is when Mercer stabs them, when they are paralyzed.

Second. It is shown that Karliah is a liar with how she changes narrative of "Mercer being a Nightingale" to "Mercer having the Skeleton Key" the second you sell your soul.
(Whole Nightingale thing doesn't ever really make sense. How exactly can Mercer use a blessing of deity he's going directly against?)

I know the Skeleton Key is powerful? With ability to unlock not only physical locks, but abstract concepts too. But powerful is it really?
Does it really can unlock some ability within you which would allow you to fight The Dragonborn, or is it how I feel it?
That Karliah is just saying he's powerful without elaborating further?

What races/nations do we think would be all in on this new tech and who’d be dismissive of it? Because I can imagine WHY it’d develop, giving soldiers a better way of telling mages “go fuck yourself”.

A few days ago , i made This Post in regards to the Magne-Ge Pantheon document and I tried to edit it and suddenly my account was locked.

I wanted to edit it to take into account some adjustments u/AdeptnessUnhappy1063 had made in regards to the nature of the Heart of The Beginning Place and the Relationship it has with the Three Enantiomorphic beings of Every Creation Myth.

So I'm making this post in an effort to try and smuggle the contents back onto reddit, because all of my posts got removed. I hope this is allowed.

As far as I understand, you have to be a believer to enter Aetherius, and Sovngarde is part of Aetherius. So, if someone believes in neither and rejects the gods, but still dies an honorable death, can they enter Sovngarde?

​

In this passage I have attempted to summarize the possible Septim bloodlines that could survive into the 4th era, as well as the Septims they descend from.

1. Galana Septim, daughter of Uriel II and sister of Pelagius II. She was originally betrothed to King Mantiarco of Solitude but instead married the Duke of Narsis in secret. This means that the Septim bloodline could continue through House Hlaalu, at least in the Narsis branch.

2. Amiel Septim, son of Uriel II and brother to Pelagius II and Galana. All we know is that he went to the Mage's Guild in Firsthold. It's possible that he produced some illegitimate offspring but not likely. I personally believe he was a student of magic who devoted most of his time to his studies and therefore had little time for a significant other or children. That last part is just my personal opinion but I think it fits.

3. Antiochus Septim, oldest son of Pelagius II and father of Kintyra II. Antiochus was a notorious womanizer and is recorded to have had many wives and mistresses as well as at least one other unnamed child besides Kintyra II. It's extremely likely that Antiochus had several other bastard children running around, as he's said to have had a "lust for carnal pleasures". Antiochus was such a man-whore that he indirectly caused the War of the Red Diamond, as his daughter Kintyra was accused of being illegitimate after his death. So there's probably some common street urchin in the Imperial City right now with Septim blood.

4. Cephorus Septim, second son of Pelagius II. Cephorus married Queen Bianki of Gilane and it's recorded that he had several children with her but they all died during the War of the Red Diamond. However, his children were almost certainly all adults at the time if their deaths so it is possible that Cephorus had grandchildren. Maybe Cephorus had all daughters, making his grandchildren excluded from the mainline Septims. It would explain why Cephorus passed the throne to his brother Magnus instead of his grandkids. So maybe there are some Septim descendants among the Nobility of Gilane.

5. Jolethe Septim, daughter of Magnus Septim and sister of Pelagius III. After her brother became Emperor, Jolethe became Queen of Solitude. That is the last we hear of her. It's 50/50 on whether she had children or not, but it seems to me that the position is hereditary so there could be some of her descendants in Solitude still.

6. Andorak, son of Uriel IV, grandson of Gallivere Lariat and Katariah. Here's where it gets murky. I'll try to summarize this in a simple way. Pelagius III and Katariah have Cassynder Septim. Pelagius dies. Cassynder becomes emperor for some years. Katariah has another child with Gallivere Lariat, a distant cousin of the Septims. The child is named Uriel. Cassynder eventually dies, and his half brother Uriel becomes Uriel IV. This is controversial because his connection to the Septims was very distant. When Uriel IV eventually dies, his son Andorak is passed up for the throne. His replacement is a Nord named Cephorus Septim II. I personally theorize that Cephorus II is a grandchild of Jolethe. Angry, Andorak rebelled against the Empire. As consolation, he was made King of Shornhelm and accepted peace. It's said that his descendants still rule Shornhelm into the fourth era.

7. Moritatha Septim, daughter of Uriel V, granddaughter of Cephorus II. She married Baron Ulfe Gerson of Winterhold. Moritatha is said to have had no surviving children, but like Cephorus I, she may have had grandchildren. Therefore, she may have descendants in Winterhold.

8. Calaxes, son of Uriel VII. Calaxes is one of only two children of Uriel VII who does not have a recorded death date. All of his other siblings are dead in the third era.

9. Ariella, daughter of Uriel VII. Same story as Calaxes.

It's established that different races have different lifespans, but despite looking through the previous sub posts on aging I'm still struggling to understand the cognitive or biological development of races.

I think that College apprentices in Skyrim Onmund, Brelyna and J'Zargo are a good example, with the implication that they're all young adults at the age when one takes up advanced education.

The question is are they all late teens/early 20s or say Onmund is 20, Brelyna roughly 40 and J'Zargo in his teens in actual years, but they're the same age relative to their lifespans/development?

At the end of the last book Scotti was escorted from Silvenesti, and seen off by his ex colleague and the other business partner who had been given gifts by the Silvenar of a Ruby each and they told Scotti that he would receive his gift later.

Months later he received word that the contract had been taken by the rival company and he was summoned to discuss it and then was invited to the feast.

The feast was Unthrappa, which Scotti was violently ill at the sight and smell of. One of the guests had cut into the meat and found two rubies. I was curious what it was because of the Bosmer penchant for eating any kind of meat due to the Green Pact and the Meat Mandate I knew it couldn’t be something that would be normal in the Empire. I was surprised when the UESP page said that it was a guest that was being held hostage over a deal and was returned if the deal was upheld but killed and served if the contract was broken. Scotti had held up the contract so why were the hostages killed? Was that supposed to be the “gift”?

I propose that every game actually has TWO "Prisoners" (as in the metaphysical concept), not just one (which is the main character). The Second Prisoner's role is that of a catalyst to push the True Prisoner on the right path towards changing fate. Each of these characters is also a LITERAL prisoner alongside the main character, after all. For each game, there is an inverse relationship between the Second Prisoner's importance and their fate. This is because the closer the True Prisoner was to failure, the harder the Second Prisoner has to "push back" against fate to correct it.

MORROWIND

• SECOND PRISONER - Jiub
• PRISONER? - Yes, he's a prisoner on the Imperial prison ship with you.
• IMPACT - Low. Wakes the Nerevarine up and asks them their name. An Imperial Guard would have woken them up anyway and asked for their name as part of the census.
• FATE - High. Drives out the Cliff Racers, becomes revered as a Saint.
• THE COSMIC IRONY - The Nerevarine was a reincarnation of Saint Nerevar, so Jiub eventually becomes a saint as well.
• OTHER EVIDENCE - A former prisoner going from rags and bars to becoming a legendary hero is just the kind of thing the True Prisoner goes through each game.

OBLIVION

• SECOND PRISONER - Valen Dreth
• PRISONER? - Yes, he's locked up in the Imperial City jail across from your cell.
• IMPACT - Medium. Brings you close to the bars, letting the Emperor see your face and recognize you as the one from his dreams.
• FATE - Medium. Was about to be released from prison, but was most likely killed by the Hero of Kvatch during a Dark Brotherhood contract.
• THE COSMIC IRONY - The Hero of Kvatch had to accompany the Emperor through Mythic Dawn assassins before the Emperor was assassinated himself, so Valen Dreth is eventually assassinated by the Hero of Kvatch in turn.
• OTHER EVIDENCE - The Dark Brotherhood somehow knew you were the prisoner who escaped with the Emperor despite that being a rushed, covert operation ("I think you know the way, hmm? \knowing chuckle**) - almost like Valen was fated to die by the True Prisoner's hand.

SKYRIM

• SECOND PRISONER - Lokir of Rorikstead
• PRISONER? - Yes, he's tied up on the cart with you to be executed at Helgen.
• IMPACT - High. Delays the execution by just enough time to prevent you from being beheaded, which ultimately results in Alduin losing.
• FATE - Low. Gets immediately shot dead by an Imperial archer as he tries to escape.
• THE COSMIC IRONY - The Dragonborn was moments away from being executed by Imperials, so Lokir had to be executed by an Imperial to save them.
• OTHER EVIDENCE - Lokir sounds like Lorkhan, nobody in Rorikstead mentions Lokir (and he has no house or other evidence he lived there), he dies from being shot in the chest (where the heart is, possible Heart of Lorkhan connection), and he prays to Shor (Nordic Lorkhan) before being killed (which stands out, as all the other gods he prays to are Imperial divines). Could it be he was an aspect or apparition of Shezzar meant to nudge fate?

Thoughts?

this might make me look stupid, but it's not like he governs magic. He's also the sun god, but it's not like he governs it either. The sun is just a hole he escaped through, infact, why is he worshipped at all?

How come I can steal an apple in Whiterun and not be able to seel it to a reputable business owner in Riften? How could they possibly know it's stolen?

I swear I'm experiencing the Mandela-effect because I remember reading about a decade ago that Mara got sick of thievery and placed a mark on every item that gets stolen. But I cannot find anything about this. Is there a lore reason?

First of all, hello, I'm new here on r/teslore

IF my post isn't appropriate,doesn't fit/nor allowed here - pls just communicate that to me, will remove it ofc

So I'm coming here as a long life ,huge fan od Dwemer race from TES lore.

Currently playing NoMansSky and there I'm trying to create alliance- NewDwemerEmpire build around my crossover storyline between TES and NMS universe>

LSS: some od Dwemers after hitting Lorkhan's Heart didn't disappear- yep,their bodies vanished but thier souls, astral,psyche-- it travelled through multiverses and some of them were "catched" ,sucked to the universe of NMS-where?ofc best shells for that wandering Dwemer souls were Korvaxes and Autophages.

If you are a big fan of Dwemers and happen to love ,or just like game NMS , maybe you will be interested to join and build together parallel storyline, our oryginal answer for the BIG QUESTION- What happened to all Dwemers?Are they all dead?maybe some of them, somwehow, somewhere survived?

Not sure if I can even put name,link to my subreddit (dedicated to my New Dwemer Alliance) here.

Purely headcanon, of course. Yes I know MK's position on canonicity et al, no need to go into that. Feel free to ignore all of this; I'm simply mind-dumping on the carpet before leaving to find a cold beer and a fresh stogie elsewhere.

All that out of the way, and having spent yet another all-nighter and too much coffee (no such beast) going through MK's commentaries at UESP, naturally I hit on the seven-year-old comment he made regarding the fact that the Dragon Cult/Wars/WTFery were subjects that never really got hashed out ("Let's just say the Dragon Cults and what happened when wasn't really clear. Ever.").

This fused with what my own brain put together years ago on the subject as a stand-in. I don't pretend to have an inkling as to how the Dragon Cult began (aside from what's written on it), but to me the core tell as to what happened after that is bound up in Alduin's actions.

Namely, that during TES:V he is doing everything but going about and eating the world. Or even prepping to. I could be mistaken, but I'm not sure he even evinces a specific desire to in his dialogue. Instead, he resurrects dragon after dragon after dragon.

Why? He doesn't need any of them in order to eat the world. He doesn't get more or less powerful based on how many dragons are running around. Nor are they particularly bound to follow him, save that they consider him to be a master of the thu'um (and thus, the best at ideological oratory). Even before Oody is trapped by TDB, he relates, various dragons have been having second thoughts about their loyalties. A coup is not entirely off the table.

All of this makes sense if his intention is to resurrect the Dragon Empire.

You know. The Empire he ran back in the day, as overlord above all the dragons who were overlords above Men. Kind of wondering there why Elves didn't make the cut (or did they? did Alky have something to thu'um about that?). Which is what he was doing when he got punted forward in time by Jurgen WC and Friends.

Which begs the question of why the Dragonborn even shows up in the first place. Or why Alduin attacks Helgen and then doesn't finish the job (and what job was that, killing TDB or saving a Jarl from being executed for mortal power-play reasons he likely doesn't care about?). Later, Alduin is found snacking on Nord souls in Sovngarde, but not even this is really explained as something that would advance any of his apparent goals - unless, because of Jurgen & Friends, he sees the Nord heroes and their ancestor-spirits as threats to his dominion.

His dominion, that is, on Nirn. Can't have the peasants repeatedly kicking you across time; it gets in the way of the fun bit: ruling.

And that creates a problem, in that Alduin isn't doing his job of ending the kalpa. After all, it's never suggested that he's the one who determines when exactly that will be. But his ur-self, Akatosh, knows - or he's supposed to. Because Time Dragon.

Bringing us to the garble-gabble my brain has been inflicting upon me for years now whenever this subject comes up: Alduin is being a slacker. Assuming we are to take any of the Fights seriously (and why would we not), Alduin is already bored of the antics of the Leaper Demon King and the Greedy Man trying to hide (and subsequently plaster back on) various bits of various kalpas instead of letting them be eaten. Alduin decides to change things up, quite literally. It's also made evident that the plot he has just foiled was a matter of trying to end him, in order to let a kalpa go on forever uneaten. Self-preservation is of course a thing most living objects tend to indulge in.

So. Maybe it's time to slow things down. Enjoy the scenery. Put off that planetary repast as long as possible, since it's already been stretching the stomach a bit much as it is (per the Fight). Why not found an Empire, paint some maps, play Hearts of Iron: Tamriel Edition?

Cut to Akatosh: Isn't There Someone You Forgot To Ask?

Assuming Alky is on a schedule (and why would he not be), this is a Problem. A Dragon Problem. Fortunately, he is known for imbuing people with the power and destiny to specifically solve Dragon Problems.

Maybe that's why you were trying to sneak across the border. Fate isn't always pretty. And in this case? Being the Big Damn Hero means the current kalpa gets no reprieve. You are actually Akatosh's instrument of Nirn's inevitable destruction, the leash-handler who will discorporate Alduin from his worldly incorporation and boot him not across time, but back to the spirit-realm where he can receive the discipline necessary to get the hell back to work, lizard-butt. It's not like he hasn't already knocked a few extra centuries off the clock, thanks to being yelled at by three guys in loincloths.

You as the Dragonborn are, in effect, an ecclesiastical Reset Button.

Just my two septims.

By this I mean: do the Daedric Princes choose their own spheres based on the identity they subjectively have, or is their identity determined by their sphere of which they have no influence over.

We're given a mild answer that implies the latter for regular daedra, in ESO as per Madam Whim "Our Princes form us from creatia and set us on our path. And thus ever does our nature, set at the time of our making, dictate our path." Though she immediately qualifies that this doesn't mean daedra are entirely unchanging.

Still, this only gives an answer for most daedra - or certain daedra at the least. Not for the Princes' themselves, who even within the quote seem to be categorically separated. Of course all daedra are made of the same fundamental stuff (and there's an argument to be made that a lesser daedra could, theoretically, become a prince. But that's a whole different can of worms)

We know Princes' spheres can overlap in function, even if the meaning/purpose of that function differs. For some examples: Hermaeous Mora and Azura in fate, Molag Bal and Dagon in destruction etc. This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does in my opinion reject the idea that the princes are strictly separate by nature.

To simplify it because I'm really trying not to be annoying! Do we feel, for example, Sanguine is the Prince of Debauchery because he chose to be (whether or not he can change that in hindsight) or is he the Prince of Debauchery by nature. Does the individual create the sphere or does the sphere create the individual.

Absolutely not disputing that the Princes' are the fullest and most metaphysical understanding of their concepts. Hircine IS the hunt itself just as much as he is Hircine the Hunter. But rather the origin of what came first. I just find the daedra to be the most fascinating part of TES lore to be honest.

I remember reading/hearing in several places that they go to Aetherius, but this makes little sense to me. The whole idea of Lorkhan being evil because he made the mer mortal stops being important since... they can just go on to being immortal in Aetherius after they die? Like, why make a fuss about being mortal if it's just temporary?

Would the Colovians and the Nibenese have a different response? Nibenese have generally been more open-minded and welcoming, as I recall, and nobody alive from the Second Era onwards would have been around to experience the cruelty of the past Ayleids

hypothetically if i were to be with Lydia in Sovngarde when we fought Alduin and she got killed , would she come back to life immediately as a soul? Like, how would that work?

The Footsteps of Shezarr gives some physical descriptions of the Shezarrine:

Time and again in Nedic folklore, a "stranger" arrives to help ancient Men. This stranger comes as a teacher, an advisor, and a maker of alliances between tribes who otherwise would have fought alone. He is not a warrior-ruler like Shor, but instead a figure who inspires others to fight for themselves. A Duraki legend mentions "Shezarr, who stole stoneworking from the Dwemer and taught Zinfara to call nirncrux from the mountain-roots." A Perena tale claims that the Cult of Stars learned soul magic from a "white-bearded stranger." Likewise, "Shezarr of the Snowy Beard" is said to give the secrets of Ayleid battle-magic to the Nedes of Cyrod, showing them how to turn their enemies' arts against them. And, most fascinating of all, a stone tablet said to have been found in the ruins of Sedor depicts a bearded figure as "the Shezzarine, Shor-Who-Lives, Teacher of Men."

Before the Ages of Man gives a list of Lorkhanic figures:

Also during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorcerer, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again.

The Song of Pelinal offers a lot of weird information about Pelinal, some of it supporting the link between Lorkhan and Akatosh, but we will just stick with the Lorkhan half of the equation for simplicity/brevity. Interestingly, Pelinal is really not a teacher-figure as the Shezzarine is described, but a bloody warrior like Shor, but still called a Shezarrine nonetheless.

Pelinal was much too grim for that; even in youth he wore white hair, and trouble followed him.

and he was Pelinal the Third, though whether this was because some said he was a god guiser, who had incarnated twice before already, or that, simpler, he was the third vision

And after the first Pogrom, which consolidated the northern holdings for the men-of-'kreath, he stood with white hair gone brown with elfblood at the Bridge of Heldon, where Perrif's falconers had sent for the Nords, and they, looking at him, said that Shor had returned, but he spat at their feet for profaning that name.

And it is said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein. Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging.

Note: the "Men of Kreath" are described by Morihaus in The Adabal-a as one of the first Nedic tribes of Men enslaved by the Elves, imported from the North, so likely Nords from Falkreath or possibly Kilkreath.

It is a solid truth that Morihaus was the son of Kyne, but whether or not Pelinal was indeed the Shezarrine is best left unsaid (for once Plontinu, who favored the short sword, said it, and that night he was smothered by moths).

Vivic describes Ysmir Wulfharth in his Sermons:

YSMIR, the Dragon of the North, who always appears as a great bearded king, had powers innumerable and echoing. He was grim and dark and the most silent of the invading chieftains, though when he spoke villages were uplifted and thrown into the sea.

The Five Songs of Wulfharth also connect Wulfharth with Shor, specifically giving him the ability to summon Shor's ghost back into the world. We also get another description of Ysmir as "hoary bearded", which is an archaic word for white.

And the Ash King, Wulfharth, hoary Ysmir, went and made peace with the Orcs in spite of his Nordic blood, and they brought many warriors but no wizards at all.

Ysgramor is also described as hoary bearded a few times, but works about him are always written in an archaic style to emphasize how ancient his legend is. More interesting is the figure of the Hoarfather, a figure described on various word walls in Skyrim. The Hoarfather matches the teacher-philosopher Shezarrine more.

Finally, we get to the description of Tiber Septim/Hjalti Early-Beard in The Real Barenziah.

Barenziah was dumbfounded. Tiber Septim was nothing like the grim, grey, giant warrior she'd pictured. He was of average height, fully half a head shorter than tall Sym­machus, although he was well-knit of figure and lithe of movement. He had a winning smile, bright -- indeed piercing -- blue eyes, and a full head of stark white hair above a lined and weathered face. He might have been any age from forty to sixty.

Mickael Kirkbride has supposedly claimed that there is actually a lore reason why Men grow beards better than Mer,

recently came across this theory again and wonder what you guys think about the possibility of the last dragonborn either being an aspect of talos, or mantling talos

The New Temple of Morrowind, which reformed out of the old Tribunal Temple (occasionally also called the New Temple in reference to pre-Tribunal religion), is the state religion for House Dunmer. Given the "return" to Daedric worship and the vindication of the Ashlanders for their more traditional ways, the New Temple is sometimes thought of as pre-Tribunal religion taking centre-stage once more. On the contrary, the New Temple is a blend of pre-Tribunal, modern Ashlander, and Tribunal religion into a single whole.

We meet only a handful of practitioners, and their perspectives might give us brief insight into the nature of the Reclaimed Temple. Aphia Velothi, a former priest that was expelled from her local temple for theological disagreements about the Tribunal, and the two attendants of the temple and catacombs of Raven Rock in TES5. Elder Othreloth is the leader, while his apprentice, Attendant Galdrus Hlervu, is xenophobic, greedy, theologically illiterate, and seems to be preparing to oust Othreloth.

Othreloth’s theology and personal history are the most developed of the three, so will be my focus. He shows the nuances of the Reclaimed Temple, and how its structure and doctrines represent newly invented tradition. As an Ashlander, he also demonstrates how the identity "Ashlander" is variable. The Ashlanders, once outcast, are now heralded by the Temple:

The rise of the New Temple almost completely vindicated the previously persecuted Ashlanders, who had continued to worship the three daedra throughout the Tribunal's rule. The Ashlanders are now lauded as the keepers of the old ways and having "true vision." It is now quite common for many of the Dunmer people to make the arduous pilgrimages into the ash wastes to seek the counsel of the Wise Women. — The Reclamations

But what exactly is an Ashlander?

Throughout TES3, Ashlanders are identified by their cultural traditions: unique interpretations of Velothi religion, semi-nomadic tribalism, particular importance placed on honour, clan structures, etc.. But the word itself describes people of a place, inhabitants of the Ashlands. As Yakum Hairshashishi, an Ashlander, puts it, the Ashlanders are "People of the Wastes".

The Ashlands are a region of northwestern Vvardenfell, home to the most infamous of the Ashlanders: the Urshilaku, keepers of the Nerevarine Cult. It has also been used to refer to other wastelands, such as the Molag Amur region, where the Erabenimsun live. The other tribes live in different regions, their lands are broadly isolated wastes, even in the more fertile parts where they are pushed out by settlers.

Under the civilized peace of the Grand Council, and with the strong central authority of the Temple, the economic and military power of the settled Dunmer quickly outstripped that of the nomadic Dunmer. The nomadic Dunmer were marginalized into the poorest, most hostile land, in particular, into the Vvardenfell wastes. — Notes from Huleeya

The nomadic, tribal Dunmer are pushed to the wastes, thus they are the Ashlanders by geography. This aligns with Athis's comment to a Dunmeri Dragonborn:

We are all Ashlanders now, brother/sister.

Morrowind is devastated and much of it laid waste to. They all live in the new Ashlands.

So when Othreloth claims Ashlander heritage:

Galdrus: You were one of the Ashlanders, Elder?

Othreloth: I was. I wandered the wastes of Vvardenfell, carrying the message of the Reclamations from tribe to tribe.

In what way was he an Ashlander?

His statement is weird. Ashlanders typically live within their own clans, devoted to their unique ancestral cult going all the way back to the Daedra, who are merely seen as powerful and distant ancestors (thus their oddness and danger):

All Ashlanders in a tribe, young and small, are born into the Ancestor cult of their clan. — Zainsubani's Notes

The Ashlanders have a primitive cult that worships the Daedra and tribal ancestors; this is the faith of our ancient forefathers, and not evil, but their worship is ignorant and unenlightened.

The oldest and greatest ancestor spirits are the Daedra. They are powerful, but dangerous, and hard to understand. — generic dialogue in TES3 on "other cults" and "ancestors"

By contrast, it is House religion that specifically classifies Daedra under a separate category for worship.

Othreloth was effectively a proselytiser on behalf of the New Temple. This doesn't mesh well with Ashlander religion: firstly, Temple authority is rarely recognised; secondly, each Ashlander's ancestor cult is a matter of birth, not conversion. The only Ashlander tradition that could be seen as a joinable cult – not one to be born into – was the Nerevarine Cult, which wasn't very successful beyond the Urshilaku:

The cult is of small consequence in Ashlander worship, and only among the Urshilaku do its followers have any influence. — Zainsubani's Notes

Why did Othreloth preach to Ashlanders about the Daedra they already worship? I suspect that Othreloth's identity and history are more nuanced than they at first seem.

He preached about the "Reclamations" to the tribes. The Reclamations are a concept of House Dunmer, that the Good Daedra have reclaimed their mantles from the Tribunal. To the tribal Ashlanders, this was never an issue, as the Tribunal was never recognised for their divinity. I suspect, then, that Othreloth preached to the tribes to inform them of the collapse of the Tribunal Temple and the reinstatement of the Good Daedra and ancestor worship. This would fit with the vindication of the Ashlanders after the Red Year.

Some of Othreloth's terminology indicates a Temple education. He calls Azura, Boethia and Mephala the "True Tribunal", adopting a phrase from Almsivi worship and anachronistically reframing it for the Good Daedra. This suggests that he's following some sort of modern Temple dogma. I thus find it hard to believe that Othreloth was a tribal nomad that gave up his life to preach Temple doctrine.

Even Othreloth's name is typical of House Dunmer, not the Tribes, whose names tend to sound more (stereotypically) Mesopotamian.

Then again, his hatred for Almsivi is brutal. He admits that they are saints and heroes, but proceeds to call them "aberrations" and "false prophets", and sounds delighted that they have been "destroyed". This is more aggressive and personal, and risks conflicting with the compromises of the Dissident Priests:

While challenging the divinity of the Tribunal, the Dissidents do not challenge the sainthood or heroism of the Tribunal. In fact, the Dissident Priests advocate restoring many of the elements of Fundamentalist Ancestor Worship as practiced by the Ashlanders and by Saint Veloth. — Progress of Truth

This tension also led to him barring Aphia Velothi from the temple, for she is sympathetic to Almsivi veneration.

On a less personal note, though, is the matter of the temple worship itself. The bodies of the deceased are cremated, per Othreloth’s description:

The Dunmer race doesn't bury their dead, or leave them to rot inside a stone sarcophagus. When a Dunmer passes, his body is given to fire, so he might return to the ash from whence he came.

As is typical of many Dunmeri tombs. But this is a House tradition. The Urshilaku Burial Caverns have mummified dead within, and each sub-cave is named uniquely: Astral, Laterus, Kefka etc. This corresponds to ancient Chimeri practices. ESO provides us with house furnishings made from mummified remains (some in the same poses as those of the Urshilaku) and Veloth Ancestral Tomb shows us the ancient ways:

This place is ancient. These must be Veloth's earliest ancestors. […] Look at this! Preserved bodies, not cremated ashed! A technique that pre-dates the earliest Dark Elves. — Narsis Dren

The Ashlanders preserve Chimeri practices. Even in ESO’s Ald’ruhn, where the Tribes meet, we can find simple burial plots for ancient ancestors.

In the Reclaimed temple of Othreloth, above the ash tombs, we find a room shared by three shrines. These contain simple artistic representations of each of the Three Good Daedra, and feature typical offerings. One can pray at such a shrine and receive a blessing.

That is so, so odd for Daedric worship, which is typically characterised by extreme effort. The statues are grand, the altars are remote, the sacrifices are large, and the devotions are singular! Even among the Dunmer that worshipped Boethiah and Azura and built their shrines in Skyrim, there’s no joint honour or passive reverence. Daedric Princes might be recognised by mortals as part of a pantheon, but their veneration is always a one-to-one endeavour, and any devotions must be worthwhile.

The temple’s layout feels inspired by the typical display in Tribunal temples, which often multiple motifs for the Tribunal and/or saints. Furthermore, this is extremely reminiscent of Aedric worship, which involves communal services where divinities are prayed to together.

Othreloth's heritage is a mystery. There is an argument for any position, from him being a tribal Dunmer that joined the Temple after the Red Year and taking a House name, to him being a House Dunmer that was only an Ashlander because he underwent pilgrimage: an Ashlander for walking the wastes as missionary, like Tamriel's very own Rachel Dolezal.

Other more moderate ideas would suggest that his parents were Ashlander and House, resulting in a mixed upbringing and naming convention. Where he lived and which parent was which is anyone's guess.

I think my favourite idea is that he was one of the Velothi. Though the term can refer to Chimer/Dunmer as a whole, "Velothi" also refers to those of tribal heritage that leave the wastes to live among House Dunmer, like Yakum Hairshashishi. Othreloth's pride at being an Ashlander, his contempt for the Tribunal, and his clear adoration of the Daedra all point to this, I believe.

The “Reclaimed” Temple is anything but. It has clearly incorporated fundamental elements of local ancestor worship, pilgrimage and Daedric veneration from contemporary Ashlander and ancient Chimeri traditions. However, it also has an Aedric-style system of divine reverence, a caste of divinity from House theology, terminology lifted straight from the Tribunal itself, funerary practices taken almost act for act from pre-Ghostfence House Dunmeri tombs, and clear signs of infighting and debate over points of theology, retaining some of the Old Temple’s dogmatism. All of this is true, while being mediated through three members of the clergy that have wildly different approaches, showing a clear reshuffling of what it means to be an Ashlander, and a Temple member. Dunmer have long lives, and the Old Temple fell roughly 196 years before TES5, in living memory for some; I think many of these tensions remain unresolved, and will need further answers if the Temple is to survive as a whole. It certainly isn’t the Tribunal Temple, but nor is it any tribal or Chimeri tradition. It truly is a New Temple, Reclaimed from the power-holders of the past.