I picked up a copy of “the art of living - Epictetus” the other day. No plans to look for it. It just seemed fun. Read through some pages. I decided to take notes since i think alot and reading these pages made me feel alot.

I felt in agreement right off the bat / with some guilt. But then i disagreed. When I dissected my disagreement it rounded right back to control. It felt almost ridiculous? Im reading something about letting control go and my disagreement lies directly with my need for control? So all this thinking made my head hurt. After some digging I find Stoicism!

Im fustrated. And I am well aware WHY im fustrated by so many of these pages. The fustration comes with alot of guilt so i know / or agree with stoicism to a degree. It feels like “the right thing to do”. Half my notes is me writing “im annoyed” “its disappointing” i feel like a edgy teenager (hittin 30s going thru a quarter life crisis of sorts)

I want to learn more and maybe use it as a tool to feel better? Sounds so self helpy lol. I feel so negative that reading this just makes me feel sad and shallow. Like its “too late” for me to change who I am and how I think.

I feel like giving up before even trying to build some feeling of content and postivity? In life. The question mark because there is SO much positivity in my life. I love my life.

Sorry for the long post. Its part vent part looking to see if im in the right place to even start somewhere with this kind of philosophy.

I’m interested in hearing from classicists, historians of philosophy, or anyone who has studied Epictetus in depth.

I understand, Arrian recorded eight books of Epictetus’ Discourses, but only four survive today. I’ve wondered for years what might have been in the four books we’ve lost.

Is there anything we can reasonably infer about them and their contents?

If anyone knows of any academic papers, books, or research on this, I’d appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

Thanks.

Creation

For I am here!! I chose to be here; I didn’t ask to be. Out of my biological mother and father, here I am—middle-aged, striving to figure out this life I am currently in. It is amazing to venture through life and learn from every aspect of it, creating who and what I am in this very moment.

Sure, I can tell you how I got here, just like any other person. My experiences have created who I am, especially how I operate mentally. Yes, our past has a great deal to do with who we are, but the key is how we transcend it.

The fun part is that we have more control over what we become through the vision we project. Our vision—where we see ourselves evolving—has something to do with who we are, but it is never bound by what we have gone through. It is preparation for what we will put ourselves through to achieve our goals. Those goals give us chills through our body and mind; that is the energy within that connects us to our visions and dreams.

In pursuit of that, we must always be aware of sidetracks, detours, and setbacks. Those are a given. It is how we stay focused, finding our path to our visions. It is the discipline and the willingness to stay focused.

The universe works in mysterious ways; it almost feels like something is trying to throw you off your plan. Truly, it is not. It is only seeing how bad you want it.

The choice to create has its own consequences, just as everything you have been through created who you are. If you had already gotten everything you ever dreamed about, life would be a waste of time. Just because you haven’t received some things doesn’t mean you aren't worthy of them—it simply means your subconscious didn’t have it as a priority.

At 46 years old, I have lived life just as anyone who has been alive. From my personal experiences, I always build on them—whether good or bad, they create our backlog of personality. With that being said, there is a particular truth I have to share: no matter what happens, good or bad, it is truly neutral. The process is where experiences either cut us deep or barely penetrate us to be carried every day as a badge. The process is different for everyone in many ways. Some process too much, for too long—that’s how it drags the brain through the mud, always looking back while trying to move forward. Life doesn’t work like that. Forward is only one direction. Yes, there are ups and downs, but they both teach us in the exact same way.

The human race in today’s society is so mentally handicapped. Everyone is looking in the wrong areas for wellbeing within—looking for appreciation, approval, acceptance, love, help, guidance, and the list goes on. When will the mirror of life be recognized again?

My favorite saying to myself is: I give enough FUCK to not GIVE A FUCK. Meaning, what I see in the mirror is everything I need to keep myself strong, safe, and healthy. And truly, that is all one needs.

I understand consciousness is slightly different from person to person, but it is still consciousness. It is a tool, just like everything else. Use it. Don't complain and refuse to use a tool that is available.

With all of this being said, seeing my wife and who she is has helped me reflect deeply upon myself. Just like any situation, we should all pause to reflect upon it—for there is a whisper in everything we go through.

philosopher is a person who doesnt cry over spilled milk.. but consoles himself that 80% of it is water.

if he had the money to buy new milk, he wouldnt have the need to philosophize.

as a very superficial example: superman doesnt need philosophy.

philosophy is a weapon of the incompetent, or the weak.. strong, capable people dont need to philosophize over setbacks.. they simply act to resolve them.

i wonder sometimes, why marcus found the need to rely on philosophy and kept on reminding himself over and over to be "good", to live with "nature".

one possess a strong desire for revenge. if he is strong, he will act on it. if he is weak, he will philosophize. if he is meak, he will leave it to karma and god.

among all, the desire for revenge is common. so i want to ask.. isnt the one with the strength is the one who is truly living in accordance with true nature. why do stoics have to "rationalize" nature and purely look at it in terms of providence and toned down its destructive side.

and endurance being a common theme among stoic way of life is not part of the 4 virtues. i question why only 4, why not 5, or 6. how do these 4 alone are enough to achieve eudaimonia?

would love to hear stoics thoughts on this piece.

Hi all, I'm currently wading through Seneca's "On Anger" and frankly finding it rather heavy going. By contrast, I found his letters to Lucilius very accessible/approachable/pleasant reading, and more importantly, instructive. Are all of Seneca's essays more like the aforementioned? Any tips for finding them more digestible? I really want to read them once, whereas I suspect his letters I will return to again and again. Thanks.

I've been reading Marcus Aurelius and Seneca for a while, and a bit of Ryan Holiday. The ideas make sense when I read them, but I've had a rough couple of years and I'm trying to start over, including moving abroad, and I notice the gap between agreeing with the ideas and doing them on a bad day.

Progress is slow, money is tight, and a lot of it isn't in my control. That's exactly where Stoicism should help, but in practice I mostly end up rereading quotes.

For people who use it in real life: what do you actually do? Journaling, a morning or evening routine, something you do when you catch yourself spiraling? I'm more interested in small habits that worked for you than in motivational quotes.

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

Everyday I interact with people who are in power and realize it's mostly arrogance that seems to be perceived as confidence that got them where they are. The world works based on connections, the people you know decide how high you can fly. I sometimes struggle with socialising and I can be seen as a pushover sometimes. The worst part is I feel terrible about it later on. How can I cope better with this issue?

In social situations, I try to focus on what I can control: my actions and responses. I recognise, however, that I often feel a strong sense of nervousness come upon me. It comes, and sometimes seems to influence my actions for the worst. I then try to "redeem myself" before others, causing more strain and nervousness. Even when I do not feel nervousness, I often have mental strain come upon me in social situations.

I understand that I want to become a "respectable man." I also know that being perceived by others as such is not in my control. However, it is my hope to act well.

My problem is that I often feel mentally overstimulated or strained in social situations which hinders my ability to choose intentionally what I say. I seek some clarity and lightness, as it seems that all social interactions have become a source of distress, stress, and weight for me.

What could I do?

I have posted earlier about my mental distress in social situations that can lead to the anxiety causing me to act poorly or in a way that I regret. I reflected on these social situations, and found that I act best choose your actions intentionally without concentrating on them too much. Acting deliberately but with lightness, approaching situations lightly.

I am new to stoicism, and I recognise that I am a learner. We all are. It may take me some time for this to be a second nature. However, if there is any advice you may provide, I will appreciate it.

The struggle seems to be with attaining this balance. In the moment, stress can come and overwhelm my mind, causing me to "forget" to accept my internal state or respond to it. Likewise, I seem to be very intensely focused on "trying" instead of keeping things simple and light: deliberately choose what I say or do without overanalysing the choices (which can lead to nervousness or a need to redeem myself before others as it causes me to act poorly), when I am faced with a choice.
I like to keep a single anchoring principle as that seems to work best for my mind. The best one to have worked is to focus on choosing how I respond or act (not as an instruction, but as an action of focusing).

Thank you for reading.

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

I have an event that I'm looking forward to yet also very anxious about. I have a lot of anxiety about whether I'll enjoy it or not, social anxiety, my anticipation is high, and I'm way too attached to the outcome of the event before it's even happened, which is exhausting and will probably make me so anxious when it happens that I can't enjoy it. How do I stop ruminating about this event and being so attached to/anxious about how it unfolds?

I am leaving my current job because of toxic management and starting a new office role soon.

Originally I was hired as an advisor, not a salesperson. Whilst I hold a higher level of formal education than most of my coworkers and managers, I was never cut out for hard sales. It is simply not in my nature to take advantage of others.
I was always picking up the slack behind the scenes and doing the unseen work no one else was doing. My managers regarded me favourably at first but as soon as my sales dipped because of this, their demeanour shifted entirely. Gradually, I found myself exiled to the periphery, constantly being written up for things that made no sense and treated differently than everyone else in the office.

Compounding this is that I am autistic and highly sensitive. Because I am extremely intuitive and able to read emotions and body language well, I find it difficult to dismiss negative perceptions as merely in my head. Historically, my readings of people have proven correct, which makes detachment all the more challenging- especially at work.

I ended up having to take stress leave because they were trying so hard to push me out and made my life miserable. I constantly let people take advantage of my mind and my feelings, and I allowed their narrative to take root in me. It eroded my confidence, warped my self-image, fuelled self-hatred and constant rumination, and left me questioning my competence and worth far beyond the office.

I wish to enter this new job with my head held high and avoid repeating that pattern.

From a Stoic perspective, how does one prevent becoming so ensnared by the negative treatment and opinions of others. specifically management, that it consumes you? I understand I cannot just do whatever I want under the guise of ‘not caring what others think’ because I still have to appease the hierarchy of the workplace and remain respectful.

How do you maintain that inner detachment whilst still conducting yourself professionally?

Any advice or memorable words/quotes that I can apply in this situation as well as outside of work would be helpful. I attend therapy, yet I find the soft approach has not been working for me. I would like some truth and solid advice from Stoics as I believe this objective point of view would be helpful.

Thank you so much!😊 

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

​

So, all my life I had suffered from anxiety issues and didnt enjoy my life to my full potential. So, few months ago I had enough of this and started to get medications for OCD ( I was diagnosed with it ). Slowly , I started to feel better. And recently after my final exams got over, I decided that I will try to enjoy my life in full potential without getting scared and anxious. And it was doing good. For a month, I felt very happy and felt like I was living again.

But then, a lot of incidents occurred in my family. My sister, she has been suffering from fistula. We have taken her to a lot of doctors and even got her operated but nothing worked. Finally, we found a doctor who is a specialist in this disease and he operated on her. The surgery was successful but she started having serious side effects. She always lies in stomach pain, cant sit or stand for long. Its been going like this for a while. She just cries all day. Plus, it costed a bit to get her operated and more money will go in medicines. Its not a big deal but everyone in my family felt a bit lost.

Then yesterday, my family were heading to our home after going to hometown for a festival. Everything was going smoothly and then out of nowhere, a truck hit us from behind and our car spunned. We survived because a tree blocked the car from getting turned. Fortunately, none of us got injured. But, our car almost became a wreck. The truck driver, even after being totally in fault didnt show any remorse. My sister was the most traumatised. She was barely holding herself after getting operated. She just cried the whole day after the incident. Later, police arrived and we had to rent a car to go to home. None of us could sleep yesterday. I dont know how to feel about this. Everyone just feels lost atp especially my dad. The operation plus now repairing of car will cost a lot. I dont know how to feel about this.

I feel like maybe I have enjoying too much thats why all this is happening. I have started to feel anxiety before doing anything. What I have left behind is coming back to me again to depress me. I dont know with what motto should I carry on to live my life. What principle should I carry ? I feel so lost. Also I feel so materialistic all the time I cant seem to let it go.

I was going back through Letters recently, mostly because I adore how Seneca writes and the levity he has when compared to Epictetus, and when I got to 27 I really thought it applied closely to how people are using AI. About Calvisius Sabinus, who's faulty memory lead him to buying slaves who knew by heart the great epics, and works of the great poets.

For context I rarely use LLM's outside of maybe formatting my recipe's. But how he describes Sabinus seems so close to how a lot of people I know treat AI. They do not take the time to learn these things, they do not put their minds to work in reading or learning. But in an attempt to seem as though they have more knowledge or talent, they use LLM's to substitute it. But they never truly learn anything through it, they don't apply their minds enough to have these things engrained.

It was funny to see the paralell laid out in something written so long ago. I might see about using it if i ever find myself in a discussion about AI and it's use.

Satellius replied: “You might have bought as many book-cases for a smaller sum.” But Sabinus held to the opinion that what any member of his household knew, he himself knew also.

[...] No man is able to borrow or buy a sound mind; in fact, as it seems to me, even though sound minds were for sale, they would not find buyers. Depraved minds, however, are bought and sold every day. - Letters to Lucilius, Letter 27.

I keep replaying old events in my mind and I keep relieving the same feeling and I want to feel more relaxed and finally let go ,stop blaming myself for things I haven’t done. I want to fully start over without thinking of the past ,of what could have been. How do I do that? And what approach should I follow?

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

I've been practicing Stoicism for a while, and I've grown increasingly frustrated with the digital materials out there. Tired of fragmented translations, terrible formatting, and OCR errors that ruin the flow of reading.

I spent the last 6 months building my own corpus and reading system from scratch. It has the original texts next to the English, and I can jump straight to thematic passages.

I'm not sharing the tool, it's just for me right now. I would like to know what the community actually seeks in terms of material and navigation.

When you read Seneca, or Epictetus, what is your biggest frustration with the mechanics of reading digitally? Or do you just stick with physical books ?

(Beyond just "which translation is best," what features or workflows do you wish existed to make studying these texts easier?)

I am new to stoicism and have been really enjoying Epictetus’ work (about halfway through Discourses). Actually, as someone who never received a drop of tough love as the expectations of someone in my circumstances were so exceptionally low, it is so refreshing to have someone speak to me from such a harsh place of kindness. I have had a great psychologist in the past who helped in many things, but he would never get out the big proverbial stick and bully me to be a better person, which is something I think, in addition to the trauma counselling, I truly needed.

But I digress. I am about to ask something with some facets, so please bear with me.

I now find myself out at sea. I am only taking up stoicism now that the worst of the trauma seems to have been processed, or at least well enough boxed away that I can no longer figure out where I boxed it up. One thing my trauma break did to me however was remove my creative drive. Additionally, and incidentally to that for other reasons, I left my job as a writer and graphic designer to work as a care worker. It is night shift, it is easy, and I can do it reliably. The clients really like me, and I take pride in doing it properly, and well, and with a good sense of humour. But there is no doubt I am not a natural care worker, I am not a care worker in my heart, and I have the impression this is not where I am supposed to be. Well - I am supposed to be here right now, or I would not be here. But not forever.

Additionally I have completed a psych degree. Originally I wanted to do research, but discovered I did not like research. I now have a bachelor and am to figure out what to do with it. At one stage I thought to use it to move on to medicine, but I think I haven’t quite made the cut. Same for neuropsych masters, which would have been a dream. I have aptitude for administering therapy but absolutely no desire to work this field. The last option I narrowed down is a masters in speech pathology, which does not stir my soul at all but would be a good career for financial security. It would at least be more favourable than care work. I qualify to learn radiography, which I would love to do, but requires 4 years of study and so many placements that I would have to save for years to be able to afford surviving two of those years without my job, and I’ve not got a very good track record for saving! I could attempt to save for years but my ADHD and six cats have a high chance of thwarting me, and it would end up with me stuck in care work for far longer than desired, chasing the ghost of something that won’t work out.

Going back to graphics and writing is not a particularly realistic option in the current environment. I could satisfy myself with creativity at home, if only that creative drive still existed within me - I am wondering if it is time to make peace on perhaps the trauma never giving it back, and how to even go about accepting that sort of loss. Every grain within me says that I should fight to reclaim it however, I just haven’t figured out how.

I have no idea what I should do going forward, or more specifically, how I should narrow down what I should do. Or how I should get my creativity and drive back, if possible, and how to mourn it, if not. I am privileged to have options and relative security, but I am lost.

I am wondering if the stoics have any guidance for this type of thing.

I'm 30, married, and have been a software engineer for 8 years.

I've worked hard to build a career, moved into leadership, and embraced AI. I use it every day, but seeing how capable it's becoming genuinely scares me.

For the first time, I'm questioning whether I'll still be able to earn a decent living in 5 or 10 years.

My wife and I are saving and investing as much as we can, hoping to build some financial security before starting a family. But we're nowhere near financially independent, and I feel like I'm racing against something I can't control.

I understand the Stoic idea of focusing on what's within my control. But knowing that and actually living it are very different things.

I keep reading about AI, worrying about the future, and wondering whether I'm doing enough to prepare.

I don't want to bury my head in the sand, but I also don't want to spend the next decade worrying about something that might happen.

How do you know when you're being responsible about the future versus letting fear control your life?

And how do you make peace with the possibility that something you've spent years building could lose its value?

I'm not looking for someone to tell me AI won't replace programmers. I'm just trying to figure out how to face that possibility without letting it consume me.

Would really appreciate some advice.

I’ve just come away from seeing Ryan Holiday live in Brisbane with a renewed appreciation for the work he’s done to bring Stoicism to a wider audience, myself included.

I know he’s had his fair share of critics here, and this definitely isn’t a show-review subreddit. However, I’m curious how the wider Stoic community is receiving him right now.

The first 45 minutes were a walk-through of the four virtues, which he covered well, with good grace and detailed reference to the original texts. So far, so good.

He really came alive, though, during the Q&A that followed. He was on stage for about 80 minutes and was excellent throughout. Some of the audience questions were challenging, and many people had clearly done their homework. Ryan answered with thought, honesty, warmth, and some vulnerability, and from the conversations I overheard outside, it sparked renewed interest in Stoicism.

It felt like he’s matured and is moving into a deeper, more reflective phase than “buy these memento mori coins.”

So, how is he perceived these days? Either way, I’m genuinely thankful that his work over the last ten years introduced me to a philosophy that’s making a real difference in my life.