See also: The summary/preview of the paywalled publication in Nature: Ecology and Evolution

I've had a hankering for some prehistoric knowledge but with so much fiction and/or guessing out there I'd like some recommendations either literature or like YouTube channels or whatever.

INTRODUCTION

Disclaimer: all arguments made in this post are either publicly available arguments made by other authors or are my arguments. My arguments are formed based on what information i can publicly gather.

Ah taxonomic debates “i think this genus is valid!” “No it isnt,i dont think it's valid!” this tooing and frooing is just a part of paleontology it seems. One of the lesser known but still notable instances of this taxonomic kerfuffle is the Edmarka Torvosaurus debate. Torvosaurus was originally described in 1979 and a detailed osteology in 1991 provided more bones to the torvosaurus name that helped provide more information. Still the taxon has remained largely incomplete and poorly known in the years since then. In 1992 a paper was published describing remains from the nail quarry in wyoming(this set of remains will be referred to as E92 by me from now on) and described this new giant megalosaur as Edmarka rex and an unpublished manuscript made publicly available on the DMG detailed another set of remains from a smaller individual in the nail quarry(it was informally named brontoraptor and will be referred to as that from now on).

However in the years since then,most authors have regarded the remains of E92 and Brontoraptor as simply being individuals of torvosaurus because of edmarkas features not being distinct enough from torvosaurus features. This has remained the prevailing idea for years. But the past decade or so has brought new information.

In 2012 a specimen of torvosaurus 55% complete,nicknamed elvis,was found on private land and was in private hands for a few years before being bought by the Cincinnati museum and are now on public display. This is the most complete and informative specimen of torvosaurus ever found.

 In 2025,a pair of paleontologists presented an abstract at the 2025 GSA conference,that abstract is publicly available and will be linked with the rest of my sources. Sometime between 2012 and 2018,the people who privately owned elvis which were at least the company fossil era and maxilla and mandible LTD published a video and advertisement PDF,both will be linked. In these publicly available items, the PDF in particular,several of Elvis's bones were either clearly displayed,taped and or figured. Critically this included the pubis,ischium and ilium. In the GSA abstract,several characters and features of the ilium,pubis and ischium were mentioned. They stated the brontoraptor specimen and another nail quarry specimen had a litany of features that werent found in t tanneri and that this supported edmarkas validity and they united the E92 material with the aforementioned specimens to form a hypodigm of Edmarka.

In any great taxonomic debate,you need a complete specimen clearly assignbale to one of the 2 genus in order to offer my opinion the debate. Elvis is so complete,it arguably is that specimen. Since figures of elvis’s bones are publicly available and I know what features to look for in the bones of elvis thanks to the GSA abstract,I decided to provide my own interpretation of the validity of Edmarka based on what I can gather from Elvis.

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DISCUSSION AND MATERIAL

So in the GSA abstract several features were mentioned as being found in edmarka but not in torvosaurus and that thus this differentiated the 2. The material in question are 2 pelvis’s from the nail quarry. In particular the characters from the abstract i will focus on will be the features of the ischium,pubis and illium i will focus on. The other features such as the synthesis and pubic peduncle are robsuticity related and rather weak. 

I will quote these features straight from the abstract. “The ilium of GPM/TATE 0012 possesses a straight dorsal margin (opposed to the convex dorsal margin in T. tanneri).’’  ‘’The ischium of GPM/TATE 0050 possesses a foramen ventral to the obturator plate, which may be present but is not preserved in either GPM/TATE 0012 or any T. tanneri material. We unite GPM/TATE 0012 and GPM/TATE 0050 based on the shared presence of two pubic foramen’’

So therefore,3 of the key features of Edmarka are a foramen on the Ischium on the proximal part of the bone near to where the meeting point with the pubis is. A pair of foramina on the pubis and an ilial dorsal margin(essentialy the profile of the top of the ilium) that is more convex and straight than that of torvosaurus. Foramen can be very helpful to diagnose with,nanotyrannus lethaeus is distinct from N lancensis because of a foramen on N lethaeus jugal.

Elvis is regarded as belonging to torvosaurus without question. According to page 438-439 of the SVP where elvis is briefly mentioned,the features united with torvosaurus are quoted directly from the abstract itself ‘’The maxilla of the new specimen shares the following traits with those of Torvosaurus tanneri from the topotype locality at Dry Mesa Quarry (Morrison Formation, Colorado) and the holotype and referred specimens of Torvosaurus gurneyi from the Upper Jurassic Lourinhã Formation of Portugal: a shallow maxillary fossa, a laterodorsal ridge dividing the space lateral to the maxillary fossa at the base of the ascending ramus, a tall interdental wall dorsal to alveolus 3, and a large neurovascular opening on the dorsomedial portion of the posterior ramus.” 

Because elvis was in private hands, it was detailed in a youtube video from fossilera and PDF by maxilla and mandible,essentialy advertising their product. In these media, figures of the pubis,illium and ischium are provided. Those 2 are the source of my figures and how obtained my information and conclusions from Elvis. According to fossil era,the right illium of elvis(which is the material ive figured to cover the ilial differences) is not distorted,so its not corrupted by taphonomy.

In the manuscript by siegwarth,publicly provided by gunnar bivens,it clarifies that the foramen in the pubis of TATE0012 are the big gaping holes in the bone as seen in the drawings and similar to those in elvis material. So the holes visible in Elvis's pubis and ischium are in fact foramen.

Now that I've laid out my material I'm going to get into the meat of my discussion.

The GSA abstract indicated that a pair of pubic foramina were enough to diagnose another pelvis as edmarka. As you can see in the picture,the pubis of elvis features a pair of these foramina.

The gsa abstract said that edmarkas ischium had a foramen hole in the obturator plate,which is the broad part of the ischium in the proximal end. As you can see in the pictures,elvis’s ischium has that foramen in the proximal part of the ischium. As randomdinos skeletal shows,this foramen is positioned close to the area that meets the pubis.

Fthe abstract says that edmarkas ilium is more straight that than of torvosaurus. Tom holtz facebook(which is public and linked) has a picture of the replicas of edmarkas ilium and that what ive shown. Ive a picture of BYUVP4977 from britts 1991 osteology of torvosaurus,figure 21 page 53. Ive pictured the undistorted right ilium of elvis courtesy of maxilla and mandible. As you can see,the top margin of the ilium of elvis is notably straighter and less convex than that of the BYU dry mesa torvosaurus ilium. 

the abstract also says edmarka has a marginal pubic symphisis(mispelled as synthesis in the abstract),an expanded brevis fossa. a broader pubic peduncle, and medial shelf on the brevis fossa. many of these are related to robusticity and thus not a very strong argument for being distinct. also the ilum of elvis looks like it has a more prominent shelf or ridge around the brevis fossa,again another overlap with a supposed edmarka autopomorphy.

Theres no question elvis belongs to torvosaurus. As stated previously,the maxilla shares the diagnostic features of torvosaurus maxillae. Even if you want to make the argument “but torvosaurus maxilla are only referred specimens and not the type specimens. For it to be confidently referred it must be diagnosable to the type specimens.” thanks to the maxilla and mandible pdf,there is a retort for that “Dr. Mark Loewen feels comparisons with the type and referred material of the BYU collection agrees favorably with Torvosaurus.” as you can see, elvis is diagnosible to the type specimens of torvosaurus and thus,is with little debate,a torvosaurus specimen. This means the key diagnostic features of edmarka are also found within a specimen that clearly belongs to torvosaurus. 

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CONCLUSIONS

So this is the wrap up of my discussion. As ive demonstrated,at least 3 of the proposed diagnostic characters of Edmarka as a genus are present within The elvis specimen of torvosaurus. Since elvis belongs to torvosaurus and there's little doubt as to that & elvis happens to share 3 of the proposed diagnostic characters of Edmarka,this further shows that the Hypodigm of Edmarka doesnt fully differentiate itself from torvosaurus. Thus in my opinion,based on all this information,elvis supports the status quo that edmarka is an invalid genus synonymous with torvosaurus.

the taxonomic opinion of this post is purely my own opinion based of my analysis of the listed sources.

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SOURCES

https://vertpaleo.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023_SVP_Program-Final-10032023.pdf page 438-439

https://web.archive.org/web/20190310083637/http://maxillaandmandible.com/portfolio/elvis-torvosaurus  scroll down to the bottom and theres text that says download pdf here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oh3Y5VOne0 

https://gsameetings.secure-platform.com/connects25/solicitations/103002/sessiongallery/schedule/items/95279/application/9126 

https://geology.byu.edu/0000017c-f2a9-dd9b-a7ff-f2af65580000/geol-stud-vol-37-britt-pdf

https://www.facebook.com/thomas.holtz/photos/fossilfriday-the-massive-hindlimbs-of-torvosaurus-or-is-it-edmarka-at-the-tate-g/10117709121690028/ 

https://groups.google.com/g/dinosaurmailinggroup/c/Wt07YzXopr8

Venez venez 🦖

For a long time, this hominid was nicknamed Nutcracker Man because of its massive jaws and thick tooth enamel. The common theory was that it used these features to crack open hard nuts and seeds during the Pleistocene in East Africa.However, more recent studies using carbon isotope analysis suggest that its diet was actually dominated by C4 plants, like grasses and sedges. This would make its diet more similar to a hippo or a grass-eating primate than a nut-eater. Does this change how we view its competition with early members of the Homo genus?

(Work in progres)

This is a speculative paleo-fiction project exploring the daily struggles of prehistoric animals as they navigate danger, competition, and shifting environments. Raptors, giant primates, and ancient predators all share the same fragile water hole — each trying to survive another day.

Small Toe learns why peace never lasts for long.

As Long Tail explains the harsh reality of their place in the ecosystem, tension rises around a weakened Dinopithecus troop. Scavengers wait for their moment… but something far older than any of them has already claimed the lake.

Beneath the still surface lies a predator shaped by an age long past — and still very much alive.

From my continuous work Terrors in the Brush — a speculative survival series blending paleo realism with raw emotion.

There is no magic, no fantasy, only nature red in tooth and claw

Read Chapter VII Now.

Chicago University Press have announced a new book to be published April 2027. I am looking forward to this book.This is the publishers blurb:-

Lavishly produced with color fossil photographs throughout, the first comprehensive summary of findings at one of the world’s best fossil bird localities, offering profound insight into early avian evolution after the end-of-Cretaceous extinction event.

What is today a high mountain desert in southwestern Wyoming was, 52 million years ago, a magnificent subtropical lake system. Part of the famed Green River Formation, the limestone layers of this region’s Fossil Lake provide an unparalleled record of life in the Early Eocene of North America. Evolutionary biologist Lance Grande has spent much of his career collecting and studying the beautiful and diverse assemblage of fossils from this locality. Since his 2013 book, The Lost World of Fossil Lake, researchers have uncovered many new fossil bird specimens—often stunningly preserved skeletons, sometimes even including feathers—and benefited from significant advances in our understanding of avian evolution. Their findings help to illuminate the early days of bird life on Earth.

In this volume, Grande and his collaborators—paleornithologists Daniel T. Ksepka and Gerald Mayr—explore these birds of Fossil Lake, where various researchers have formally named and described thirty avian species. The authors also present an additional twenty possible new species awaiting further study and formal review, birds that may soon be added to that list. Fossil Lake and the Rise of Modern Birds then places these avian ancestors within the global context of other fossil birds. Like Grande’s previous publications, this comprehensive work features stunning imagery, including nearly two hundred detailed fossil photographs—fifty that have never appeared elsewhere. 

Whether you are an ornithologist, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, or amateur fossil enthusiast interested in the early evolutionary diversification of modern birds, this book is a treasure.

Hello, recently I have been wondering on the current state of Tyrannosaurus Rex as of October 2026. This is for 2 important reasons. One, integument, and two, body size. This is because of a few main reasons. First, I have recently gotten more and more interested in learning on the most updated designs for art, which I have also recently gotten into. Second, because of a certain Rex jr specimen. From what I have believed from the last few years, t rex was a mostly scaly animal with a bulky frame. But then this came out. Before I say anything, all I want to say is this is a complete SPECULATION!!! Not scientific proof, just evidence I have gathered from publicly released videos and articles.

Original article https://cowboystatedaily.com/2026/09/19/rex-junior-found-on-newcastle-ranch-could-be-most-important-t-rex-ever-unearthed/

wyrex had feathers? youtube.com/watch?v=U6e9bK

Sereno saying its like a plucked chicken youtube.com/watch?v=9hINqb

skin of Wyrex dr persons and Pete larson are looking for it
https://youtube.com/watch?v=U6e9bK819A0&t=1s

Paul sereno says specimen shows naked bird skin
https://youtube.com/watch?v=9hINqbVWIgA&t=186s

Again, this is PUBLIC INFORMATION, not actual prying of research. So my question is, what do we think as the current status of t rex Integument and bulk? Thank you.

Hi y'all. As a child, I was obsessed with books in which the main characters were essentially just animals that kind of acted like animals. I started writing (obviously very childish) versions of my own books. I wrote a lot of them, and they were actually quite long considering my age.

In no way do I actually think I could make money off of this as an adult. However, I've been wanting to just do it for my own enjoyment. I know it goes against capitalism's "work hard" ideal, but I just want to write for the sake of enjoying writing. I decided I wanted to write stories taking place in the Mesozoic (who knows, I might branch out from here, but my love of Dinosaurs is taking strong control of me, lol).

The advice I wanted is as I start the writing process, some ideas for good fossil formations or unusual formations that I could take a look at. I guess in a way the more fossils, the easier it is to choose the characters and setting for my books. However, I also really like obscure places/times, and after all, I'm just doing this for fun - So any ideas would be cool. But let me also list what I've been thinking of so far. I had 3 ideas (very rough ideas) of settings and characters :

1. The Nemegt Formation in Mongolia - My first location was chosen kind of on a whim. For some reason, I saw a picture of Saurolophus and was like, done, my main character. Looked up the formations where it has been found, and liked the Nemegt Formation's cast of characters. I'm thinking of having dual main characters, one being a Saurolophus and the other being either an Anserimimus or a Gallimimus. The main "villain" of the story will be a Tarbosaurus. Supporting cast I've thought about so far would be Tarchia, Nemegtosaurus, Mononykus, and Tochisaurus. I might also want to include Gurilynia or Teviornis (as I want a bird or two haha).
2. Late Triassic or Early Jurassic Formation With Unusual Dinos not Usually Highlighted in Documentaries. I had two ideas so far, first was just starring Kulindadromeous. Actually, does anyone have any idea what kind of dinosaurs Kulindadromeous may have shared it's environment with lol. I realized it's basically like on it's own right now, lol. The second idea was to star Eocursor probably with a sauropodomorph, one or two heterodontosaurids, and a theropod as the supporting cast.
3. Morrison Formation - What can I say, this was my favorite formation as a kid, not the Hell Creek Formation. Brontosaurus (my favorite childhood dinosaur) will be the star, but I will also have Apatosaurus involved heavily somehow (will need to think of niche partitioning for these two species). Allosaurus is likely to feature as the antagonist, and Stegosaurus and Dryosaurus are must haves.

Anyways, anyone have advices where I can go with this? Any ideas are appreciated^^.

Me and my kids think we found something cool.......do these resemble anything j can get a reference too to anyone ?