I've been watching Angel for the first time this year and Lorne is my favourite character. Is he generally liked in the fandom or not?

As much as I love it, I feel like they should have waited until the next episode to bring in Illyria. Let us sit with the loss of a beloved character for just a moment longer. The change was a bit too fast and there was no time to grieve. Even doing it right at the start (pre-credits scene) of the next episode would have been better. Right?

I always felt that Gunn was written as a "token black guy" so his character was written weakly. But I really find it implausible that the relationship between Gunn and Fred ended cuz Gunn killed a guy for Fred!!! Tf. I guess it's one of those situations that even if Fred was with Wes, the relationship would have ended because Fred was gonna kill the professor and no relationship would be the same after that.

I'm rewatching Angel and I'm always surprised how dark this show is! I really have to turn up the display because it's really difficult to tell what's happening at times. Are there any other shows/movies with the same problem?

I'm curious as to the sub's thoughts on the name on the box of the funko pop. Personally it felt a bit like a stab in the heart lol.

I prefer how they word it in the website title, but ultimately did think they'd call the pop Illyria.

In S1E18 "Five By Five" Faith beat up a pimp, stole his wallet and house keys and brough Wesley to his house to torture him.

Angel finds out by checking the list of all the people Faith beat up in Los Angeles and he goes to rescue Wesley, he busted trough the door and entered to confront Faith.

How could he enter without the rightful owner inviting him?

(Spoilers for Season 1 and some parts of Season 2 and Buffy Season 4)

This has gone much further than I thought.. Anyway, happy to meet y’all. These are my notes on Angel (“A”) and Doyle (“D”) and why I think they’re into each other, featuring Cordelia (“C”) as an innocent bystander.

This is mostly meant as a joke and to feed my own delusions, so please don’t take any of this too seriously. The quotes are as accurate as possible, and if not, I will have written down what was changed/paraphrased. The interpretations are my own.

Also, I have absolutely nothing against other ATS ships (Doyle/Cordy, Angel/Cordy, etc.). This is just me yapping and overanalysing one of my OTPs. Enjoy! :)

ATS S1 EP1:

• around 10:21 D: “(chuckles) Have you looked in the mirror lately?” (Implies A is good-looking)
• 38:08 *D treats A’s gunshot wound, A is (of course) shirtless* (They basically just met?? Whatever, maybe A’s just like that..)
• Every time D talks to A, A is looking elsewhere & around, while D is just constantly staring intensely at him

ATS S1 EP2:

• 01:04 D: “It’s Friday Night. It’s the most social night of the week” (usually, one could assume D would be in a bar or something, yet he is with A.)
• 01:08 D: “I mean a couple of lookers like us […]” (again, implies A is attractive)
• 01:21 D: “You gotta come out, man”, A: “Why?”; D: “Because, I think we deserve a night of fun” (wants to go out/spend time with A. Remember, the Powers that Be only sent D to A so that A can do his warrior-stuff, not to connect A with people…)
• D gets his vision, for the first time in front of A, and A is super worried, keeps telling him to calm down and stuff and HOLDS D by the WAIST?????????
• 03:26 A: “Looks like you got your wish. We’re going out after all, huh?” (While looking at D with that Intense Look he has); (Also just “We’re going out”…)

ATS S1 EP3:

• 07:07, when Oz has come to visit, D looks quite jealous at the attention he is getting from A. Now, he looked jealous when he was talking to C, too, but that’s besides the point
• 08:04 D: “What are you waiting for, man? P-put it on!” (Telling A to put on a ring <3 …Disregarding that it’s the Gem of Amara….)
• 08:32, basically inviting A to go to a strip club together
• 38:37, A chooses to spend what he can assume will be the last sunset he’ll ever see with D. We know that D didn’t just force his presence onto A, because just a scene earlier, D told all of them to leave A some time to himself in the sun (and then A just makes small talk with D about D’s mom)

ATS S1 EP4:

• 01:01 D: “He likes playing the hero. Walking off into the dark, his long coat flowing behind him in that mysterious and attractive way..”; C: “Is this a private moment? ‘Cause I could leave you alone”; D: “No- nothing- (chuckles nervously) I’m not saying I am attracted. I’m just saying that, you know, he projects a certain kind of image […]”
• 01:45 (almost unprompted starts complimenting A) D: “Sure been making us proud these past few weeks, fighting evil and allathat”
• A is always so adorably worried whenever D gets a vision, it’s cute. D asks for Single Malt Scotch to calm down from the vision and A doesn’t hesitate a second to get it, and when D complains about it being Polymalt, A looks so apologetic
• 02:57 C gives D a knowing look, D: “..Maybe I’m a little attracted”

ATS S1 EP5

• A and D often have casual talks just the two of them. It’s somehow cute.
• 09:16 (D tries to make C realise he had a bruise on his hand. She doesn’t notice. 10:05, A enters. D doesn’t even try to show him, but he realises IMMEDIATELY) A: “You got a bruise on your hand” (worried, brooding face-look)
• 10:21, while D is leaving(?) D grabs a book that seems to belong to A without asking. So I like to think D borrows books from A often
• Throughout the entire debt-collecting plotline, A is very worried and very protective of D. It’s cute.
• A is very curious about D’s life. D says he needs time, but will tell him eventually. He never did.
• 40:54 A: “You know I’ll help you out” (“whenever you need me”, goes unsaid.)

ATS S1 EP6

• 05:17 (C curses A for leaving them alone with a demon, D just stays silent and doesn’t complain. When not understanding what C means, A immediately turns to D to explain. Even when “translating” what C means, he does so by kinda insulting her and not A)
• 07:47 (while D is investigating, A comes, asks what’s new and leans.. pretty close… Also the non-verbal communication between them is always very cute)
• 19:43 (some guy invites D to a gym which could…very loosely be interpreted as flirting. A immediately breaks them off… which also could just be to get the information he’s looking for, OR he’s jealous hehe. Details, details.)
• 33:44 (A gives D and C a hug and its so cute (okay he’s brainwashed, but that’s besides the point)) C’s response to this is “Ew- eww”, while D’s is just “mhh.. mhm..” (like the sounds when you nod to smth)
• (sligghtlyy off topic:) 34:01 A: “He [= a sensitive version of A] was in here all the time (taps his chest) just waiting to come out” (.. you wanna “come out”, A?)
• 37:04 (we see the Angel Investigations team break into a Police Station through a high window. The order they enter we can assume to be C then D then A. We don’t see the alley/street from where they got in, but before it was implied they couldn’t really reach it easily. So, D or A possibly helped C enter, then A must’ve helped D! This is all just speculation.)

ATS S1 EP 7

• 00:27 (they always talk privately when no one else is around <3) D: “[…] How about some off-duty fun?” (Inviting A out again); A: “Such as?” (Not rejecting this time, actually sounds kinda willing to go); (D just casually pushes A’s feet off his desk to make some room for himself) D: “Two beautiful words: sports bar”; (A silently declines) D: “[…] Anything, please?? I can’t just sit around here while-“ (they are cut off by C). (Okay D. But you could also just go out by yourself like you do quite often.. why are you so desperate to get A to join you, huh? 😏)
• 01:14, C makes a comment about possibly quitting her job and then leaves, leaving A and D who proceed to quietly look at each other (gayly). When C’s date comes in, they confront him, asking questions (like parents who first meet their daughters’ new boyfriend). Smh..
• 02:17, D finds a picture of Buffy and asks A about it. When he finds out it’s Buffy, he stops his jokes about her being a hottie (like the respectful guy he is). Also, besides the point, but D is looking through a book again, and I’d bet my liver it’s another one of A’s
• 02:45, D gets another vision, and, as per usual, A is immediately by his side. Also helps D stand up once it’s done
• 03:04 D: “Everybody’s got dinner plans but us” (implying he wants to go out for dinner.. with A, perhaps??)
• 04:34, A and D are clearing out a vampire nest, fighting well together. A is attacked from behind and D just hangs himself onto that vampire to fight him down lol. Then A stabs the vampire who’s threatening D. They protecc each other
• 05:14 A: “Doyle, you’re stronger when you’re a demon, right? Why’d you shake it off?” (Worried bf); D: “I just don’t like to fight like that”; A: “This isn’t a Spelling Bee, nobody expects you to play fair.”; D: “It’s not my style, that’s all.” (A is worried and doesn’t want D to get hurt lol. Also, D then offers his help, but A insists he go home and rest <3)
• 07:44, C is complaining about her bad date and A is kinda listening while also doing paperwork, when she brings up D. Suddenly, A is locked tf in on that conversation. C compliments D and A just smiles dumbly
• 08:49 A: “Yeah, well, there’s definitely more to Doyle than meets the eye” (with a smug(??) kinda grin?)
• 11:02, D introduces Harry as his wife to C, when A enters C repeats this to A who does not seem surprised. So, it’s fair to assume D told A about Harry?? They definitely talk even more with each other off screen
• 11:57 D: “Yeah, I’m a private investigator now, and this is my company. These two are, uh, my helpers” (C tries to deny such, A nudges her silent. To keep up D’s cover?, but A, how very nice of you…)
• 15:06, A tries to pour him and D a drink to talk. D declines the drink, but just think: A doesn’t need to drink (and cannot get drunk). A doesn’t usually drink. Meaning, he got this alcohol just for the occasion to drink it with D?
• 15:25 A: “So, .. you two hadn’t been in touch at all since you split up?” (A little worried, a little jealous??); D: “Oh, the end was rough, […]” […]; A: “You shouldn’t blame yourself for that. I mean, you were kids, it’s only natural.” (Comforting his bf <3)
• 17:17 (D is so hesitant to ask A a favour) D: “..Angel, you think you could-?” (Gets cut off by Mr. Eager); A: “Yeah.” (No hesitation bruh.)
• 17:25, D gives A a thankful pat on the back, grabs a glass of Scotch and chugs it. PAUSE. Now earlier in this scene, we saw how A poured a glass for himself and tried to give D a glass, too, but D declined and says that alcohol isn’t good for him. So the only glass filled with alcohol was A’s. We can assume A already drank from this glass. That means, they drank from the same glass, ergo: indirect kiss. To further show that this was indeed A’s glass, we see D set it down next to his original glass, which is still empty. BOOYAH.) (okay, upon rewatching the scene, no, A did not drink from the glass before.. but still! Thinking about it that way; A probably hadn’t planned to drink if D wasn’t going to drink, too, else he would’ve. So he kept the glass he poured himself just in case D would want a drink??
• (Also, A stalks Richard (Harry’s new fiancé) just because D told him to lol)
• 21:17 Harry says: “But he couldn’t accept himself. Or them [= the Brachen Demons]”, and A just looks.. sad and confused.
• 25:16, D enters the Bachelor Party. Now, notice how A was not invited? Well, he just came as D’s date, I suppose.. (25:36, Some Guest: “And he [= Doyle] brought someone..”)
• 29:15 A: “Are you okay?” (Okay, worried, kinda overprotective bf); D: “..Yeah”
• 33:36, Richard tries to hug D, D almost immediately pushes him off. Now, it might be because he has a slight personal front against Richard, but he just told him he had his blessings, so he can’t dislike him that much. He also declines hugs from everyone else. Still, he declined his hug, while he let (brainwashed) A hug him for at least 3 seconds or more (refer to EP 6, 33:44).
• 35:16, D fears for his life, and immediately calls out to A. This might just be because he brought A to the party and knows he’s strong, but still. First instinct!! “Oh god, where is Angel? Angel!!!!” When A wakes up a few minutes later, he immediately vamps out, and when he arrives KICKS DOWN the freaking doors. Protective much??
• 37:20 Bachelor Party Guest: “You brought a vampire to my brother’s bachelor party?” (Still makes it sound like A is D’s date) (Also, D just looks incredibly smug for his panicked state when this is brought up.)
• 41:40 C: “He’s still really hung up on her [= Harry], isn’t he?”; A: “Mm. More than he knew, probably, yeah.”; C: “Well, someone has to go out there and cheer him up” (A hesitates, looks at C, starts moving towards where D is, she holds him back, goes in his stead. A looks.. kinda disappointed? and stalks their conversation. When C’s “cheering up” goes too far into the direction of insulting D, A stops her.)
• 42:53, when D has a vision about Buffy, he hesitates to tell A. Maybe to spare his feelings? Maybe.. jealousy?

BTVS S4 EP8

• throughout this episode A (and others A has talked to) keep referring to D as A’s “friend”. It’s kinda cute idk
• A also cuts Willow off when she tries to make small talk about C with the reason that “he doesn’t have any time”.. still enough time to tell anyone who will listen about your “friend who gets visions”…
• Willow says to Giles (about A) “I think he’s lost his edge”. How would that have happened in such short time if not for D!! (Who forced him to connect with people, go outside, get to know people, etc) Hehe

ATS S1 EP8

• 00:29 C: “When did he get back?” [A from Sunnydale]; D: “Late last night.”; C: “And?”; D: “He seemed fine(?)” (1st of all, it’s so cute how both of them worry about A <3. 2nd of all; This conversation implies D was just hanging out at A’s place (who we know was away for 3 days in Sunnydale!!) for no apparent reason, probably also sleeping over there, possibly waiting for A to return to LA, and then he probably had a conversation with A, late at night when A returned!!) (Also this means, if it’s true, that A trusts D with his home. I mean, he kicked out C after she spent just a night at his place, and I don’t think D broke in. Alas, he left his keys with D and trusted him enough to let him just.. stay there??)
• C just rambles on and on about relationships after A said he was fine with leaving Buffy in the past, and D just kinda.. awkwardly stood there, quiet.
• 06:30, when C and D are just about to leave the office and hear noise of fighting, C is even more desperate to get out fast, while D is worried and wants to at least go check that A and Buffy are fine… until C drags him out with her
• 13:55, when C and D come back to the office, C finds a pile of dust and thinks for a moment that Buffy killed A. D: “What are you trying, to give me a heart attack?!” (Thought his pookie was dead for a sec)
• 14:12, A re-enters the office, now alive/human C: “What’s wrong, what happened?” […] (A stays quiet. D too. D approaches A, probably, somehow, recognising he is now alive) […] A: “Some of its blood mixed with mine.” (D gets close and feels his pulse) […] (A tries food and.. moans, D just stands by and.. watches??)
• 17:07) D: “Hey, what difference does it make, man? The demon’s dead, you’re alive! It’s happy fun time.” (D really wants to have some “happy fun time” with A, huh?)
• 17:18 A: “How come I keep getting the feeling that you’re not telling me everything?”; D: “Because I’m not. We’re both on a need-to-know basis here” (Ouch, pooks. Ouch.)
• 18:12 A: “Aren’t you coming [to the Oracles]?”; D: “Not allowed. I’m just a lowly messenger. You’re a warrior” (aww. Look at him.) (Also A’s pretty eager to get D to come with..)
• 29:50, D storms into A’s apartment and doesn’t blink twice at seeing A shirtless. Okay, to be fair, it’s A we’re talking about but still. Used to it, are we, D?) (Few moments later, A gets dressed and D just.. watches
• 31:35, A and D encounter dead bodies. In his mortal form, A suffers from the sight. D helps keep him upright D: “It’s never an easy sight. It’s part of being human now.”

ATS S1 EP9 </3

• In the starting scene of C wanting to film a commercial, D is very against starring in it, until she mentions doing it as a favour for A. Then he suddenly caves..
• 05:43 C: “That’s all very sad, but we live here [in A’s apartment?], too.”; D: (looks around, considering) “I’ll talk to him” (someone’s eager..)
• 05:59 “I don’t see Angel putting on tights.. Oh, now I do and it’s really disturbing” (seconds later D casually walks off to talk to A) (fantasising about A, are we?)
• 06:39, A tells D about the erased day no one but him was supposed to know about. D: “Human? You were a real life flesh-and-blood human being? (Not disbelieving, only clarifying) And you and Buffy [had sex]..? (That’s the first thing you’re interested in?? Okay..) You had the one thing you actually wanted in your unnaturally long life and you gave it back?” (He’s just acting silly. He knows the pain A is in. And A knows this. That’s why he trusted him) […] “Well if it’s a fight they want.. can’t someone else give it to them?” (Easily makes A smile again after having been down.)
• 17:02, D randomly opens up to A about a part of his past (rejecting another Brachen-demon) he’s clearly been trying to forget. And A just. Listens. Also, it seems like A is finally comfortable enough to stare back into D’s eyes with an Intense Glare, instead of avoiding his gaze like he did before.
• (here it’s shown that the first time D got his visions, he had no idea what they meant, where they came from or- anything, really. At that point, he was a Messenger with no one to deliver the message to.. so maybe he sought out A by himself after all?)
• 18:55, A comforts D about his “sin” A: “You couldn’t have known”, (and then looks very sad when D doesn’t answer to this (doesn’t accept that it wasn’t his fault))
• 19:10 A: “It won’t come to that. Because we’re gonna get them out of here” (helpful bf) (and just the way D looks at him then UGH my heart)
• 24:40 Rieff: “Why? Because your [=D] friend’s [=A] the Promised One?!” (He says, and D looks like he wants to defend A lol)
• 24:53 D: “But I do know Angel, and he’s the genuine article” (<3); Rieff: “My hero” (sarcastic); D: “Yeah. That’s exactly what he is!” (He doesn’t try to convince Rieff the “Promised One” is real, only defends A and says he’s a “real hero”. D can you be a little more obvious, please 🙄. And then he says something along the lines of “Maybe A isn’t a perfect hero, but he saved me” (paraphrased))
• 27:42, A from a dark house pulls D in (who is being chased), D doesn’t even panic or anything, even though he didn’t know it was A. As if he could somehow sense/recognise it was A hehe. (Also protective A strikes again)
• 39:23, A means to sacrifice himself. His “goodbye” for that is just grabbing D’s shoulder and resting his hand there. And D just grabs his arm in turn. (And D was about to say something before A pat his shoulder, and that kinda shut him up.)
• 39:25) D: “The Good Fight, yeah?” (And A is TEARING UP) “You never know until you’ve been tested. I get that now.” (All the while they are just staring intensely into each other’s eyes) (And then D punches A, that way he falls off the balcony-thingy. Because D knows A would stop him and sacrifice himself instead)
• 40:24, A tries to stand after he’s just fallen like 4 metres/13 feet. He just says “Doyle. Doyle, Doyle! Doyle! NO! No! No!” as he tries to get to his bf, and D had already jumped to the beacon, but A was back up to that balcony in just seconds. And C doesn’t even say anything, just covers her mouth with her hands, while A is standing there, panicked, looking like he’s about to cry
• 41:36, A and C are just hugging while she is sobbing. Like WE just lost OUR boyfriend :(
• 41:41, A and C are looking at the advertisement they filmed, while sitting quietly in the dark office. And we get like. Equal amounts of face close-ups from A and C, although D was like, supposed to be C’s love interest??

ATS S1 EP 10

• 00:40, A is visiting the Oracles to ask them to bring D back. (Oh my homo.) A: “But I need Doyle. You can fold time. You’ve done it before. Bring him back.”; Oracle (female): “To what end? To nullify his noble death? To leave his atonement unfulfilled?”; A: “If it means he lives.” […] “He’s my friend.” (They also call his request “self-serving” lol. When A brings up the argument of D having been his Messenger, they say RIP BOZO, but you would think that would be the FIRST thing A says upon visiting the Oracles?? Not just “pls bring my boyfriend back I miss him a lot”)
• 03:15, C is looking for D’s special coffee mug. A: “Doyle didn’t have a special mug” (which A somehow noticed but C missed? Okay..)
• When Barney comes to get help from A, apparently because he has debts to settle, I just want to point out the strong contrast between how A treated D when he had “debts to settle”, and how he treats this guy.
• 10:08, C kisses A (to pass the visions onto him). INDIRECT KISS THROUGH C?!
• 10:33, when C mentions her kiss with D and him having “passed something onto her”, A just touches his lips, as if he could feel the essence of D there or something lol
• 10:43, C also mentions “I didn’t ask for this responsibility unlike some people who shall remain lifeless [=D]. I don’t have anything to atone for”, and A just looks at her, mournfully
• 11:07 A: “You’re [=C] my link to the powers now.” (While looking dumbfounded, sad, and kinda mad, too. That this was the reason the Oracles wouldn’t bring D back)
• 12:21, A tells C to “Try sketching it” [=the thing from her vision], while he always just let D talk or describe stuff. Bf privileges or something

ATS

S2 EP18 “Dead end” - Wes mentions D and him having been a half demon when C’s visions start to take a toll on her. Safe to say they have talked about D, more than we’ve seen onscreen. Gunn didn't seem surprised at his mention.

Anyway, that's my very normal and unbiased analysis so far. I'm still rewatching (haven’t gotten to S5), so if anyone has noticed other Angel/Doyle moments I've missed, PLEASE tell me. I need more evidence for my completely reasonable conclusions :)

i want to do a dru cosplay for a con but can't seem to find a dress like this one. anyone have any links to affordable dru style dresses thanks! EDIT: idk why the title is like that lol

Second worst thing about Season 4.

Does anyone have links to lorne merch, I’m going to buy the funko but I would love to get some more stuff with him cause he’s my favourite character!

Shouldn't Angel's superhuman strenght be more than enough to toss them away like flies?

As a matter of fact he launched another orderly across the room effortlessly just a few seconds prior getting inexplicably restrained by other two.

FYI James Marsters Twin Cities Con photo ops, inc a duo w/ Seth Green, are now available for pre-sale.

Grab yours here.

https://jm-news.link/TwinCitiesCon2026

This is my second rewatch of Angel. First as a real adult lol. And the entire time I was rewatching, I was thoroughly enjoying myself, but was dreading this episode... The arrival of Illyria. Which means the departure of... And it's just as bad as I remember it. I don't understand why they went that route! Why they had to kill my girl? Why they wrote Gunn to make that choice? That entire storyline pissed me all the way off the first time I watched it and here I am, pissed again. I don't remember how the story ends. But I distinctly remember getting to this part of the series and being sour/disappointed/annoyed/sad/pissed off and don't remember it getting better. 😭

Just wanted to share my sorrow.

Throughout the episode, Lorne recounted the events of "Spin the Bottle". The final scene was deeply sad, revealing that he was all alone at Caritas, there was no audience to listen to him, as he realized, with a sense of melancholy, that by using the memory spell on Cordelia, he had set in motion the chain of events that led to Jasmine's arrival on Earth and Cordelia's death.

I was considering where in the timeline Lorne might have delivered that monologue, and i believe it must have been after the episode "Origin" in Season 5. Logically speaking, once Jasmine appeared, Lorne became her servant and wouldn't have had the time to recount such a story, furthermore, he mentions Connor in his tale, and we know that, for the first half of the season, he couldn't have remembered Connor due to Cyvus Vail's spell. Looking at it rationally, he must have told the story after "Origin", once Wesley destroyed the Orlon Window and the memories of Connor resurfaced. As we know, Jasmine's arrival on Earth contributed to Connor's spychological breakdown, forcing Angel to agree to work for Wolfram&Hart a decision that set off a chain of events ultimately leading to Fred's death. This explains the profound sadness Lorne expresses in his monologue from "Spin the Bottle". Through the memory-altering spell, Lorne inadvertently set in motion the events that led to the deaths of both Cordelia and Fred.

What are you going to sing? WARNING: Lorne WILL be reading your aura. Me: 'Perfect Day' by Lou Reed.

What are you asking him to sing? 'We Don't Need Another Hero' by Tina Turner would be my request.

Wish she had more presence in the show, such a beautiful and instant eye catcher character.

What do I do now :(

I can’t believe cordy wasn’t in the last season, I really thought she was coming back and she looked so amazing too but then she left after one episode.

I find it weird that angel was still pining for Buffy at the end of the series after him and cordy got close.

Also, Fred dying was heartbreaking. And then Wes. I can’t believe it. 😭 did they really have to destroy her soul? I like to think that they’re together in the afterlife anyway, even if I wasn’t the biggest fan of their relationship.

The last few episodes and plotline seemed really strange, it feels like it should’ve gone on for longer. And the last scene.? what am I supposed to think? Everyone is just dead? It happened so abruptly.