Bonus: Jamis's kid with an Atreides Battle Pug™

First I want to point out something about Dune part 2. Thematically its an adaptation of dune messiah. Obviously the plot is just half of dune 1 but if you think about its function in the context of the movie trilogy it asks the audience to take a step back and consider the consequences and human cost of Paul's actions. Its still sympathetic to Paul because we know he ultimately chose the best future he could from the options he saw but if you look at everything from an outside perspective he's far worse than Hitler.

Now that we know for a fact that Chani doesn't go back to Paul after part 2 we know she had to be pregnant at the end of it or else there simply wouldn't be an opportunity in the timeline for the twins to be born meaning the teenage actors are playing them in the present day of the story. This means part 3 is going to be an adaptation of children with messiah's plot.

I think this is a great call. The main political plot line of children has never been all that interesting compared to the Leto plot line so as long as the substance of the Leto scenes remains intact this could work very well. Furthermore if the plot of part 3 was really just all about how bad Paul was after part 2 it would simply feel redundant, but now that Leto II is in the picture we have the opportunity for a more meaningful critique of Paul for being limited by his shortsighted prescience and therefore not seeing the golden path.

The one issue i see with this is Stilgar though because in messiah he was full fanatic mode and in children he was so much more interesting with his scenes being some of my favorite in the whole book, but if Paul's alive in part 3 he'll need to be more like how he was in messiah.

This does make me wonder at what potential future dune might have as a movie franchise. Before now I always thought that part 3 was the end because it was the end of Paul's story but now that we know it will almost certainly end with Leto II in power its basically removed the possibility of adapting children. A day ago I would have said give the Leto II books to a new director and make them a trilogy then give the post Leto II books to a 3rd director and make them a trilogy. Now it looks like thats impossible to the great dismay of all who viewed Dune as a trilogy of duologies (me) and I wonder where we go from here. A stand alone God emperor movie? A trilogy set during his reign ending with a god emperor movie at the end? A trilogy covering each of the remaining 3 books? I really dont know.

With the absence of Chani and the narrative decision to have her be on the side of the conspiracy in the adaption, Alia is effectively the only individual who Paul can fully trust (along with Stilgar) and has consistently backed him during his time as emperor.

They should be absolutely devoted to each other as siblings who have been abandoned by their absentee mother.

I'm hoping that they don't purposely villainise Alia as a caricature.. better to hold off on the possession plotline despite aspects of Children being meshed into Messiah.

Dune Part 3 is coming up soon. I missed out on watching part 1 and 2 in Imax, is there any chance they will release in regular Imax screenings before part 3?

Are they all Enemies of the Imperium?

What factions oppose the empire's rule in universe? I think the Honored Matres and Fremen are big players but aside from them who else is there? And where in each book are they mentioned?

I remember a friend told me about cartels and rebel houses/populations on distant frontier worlds escaping imperial rule but I can't find mention of these in the books.

In CoD its mentioned that in addition to melange, Guild highliners also transport Tleilaxu products as well as textiles such as whale fur and (presumably) weapons. But how can such rudimentary and single purpose goods drive the economy of a galaxy spanning empire, that is always expanding?

You can't say its the tleilaxu technology that's doing all the heavy lifting because that would give them bargaining power and prestige the books don't show them to have, as they are just fringe psychos who have no CHOAM holdings. So it must be the textiles and stuff right? Furs and precious stones but I highly doubt a Feudal society can circulate enough of those amongst its small elite to reliably drive commerce.

In the same book a bounty is placed on Stilgar's head that could "buy a planet" so the economy is advanced enough to where an entire world can have market value but has no stock market, no complex goods or large consumer market. In the first 3 books its mentioned that the empire has a large middle class but how? If the Guild transport most essential goods and the Great Houses are the only people who can afford their fees how is that possible? If all these middle class citizens are confined to world's that means the Laansraad and other Imperial institutions are the Guild's only customers, how does that math work?

Maybe if you say a mentat or Bene Gesserit or Ginaz swordsmaster costs the same as a fancy yacht in our world (roughly 5 to 80 million dollars) thats still only on a Great house's coinage. They pay for housing and transport and these skilled individuals are once off payments.

What is driving Dune's economy to the point that they have a large middle class, a strict Feudal like caste system and and a trading guild that only transports a select few products in market all at once? What am I missing?

Dune Messiah was written largely because FH felt people weren't grasping at Paul being the ultimate villain of the story but in my opinion this is most effective as a thematic statement in Children of Dune.

In Children we see much much more of the Fremen's decay and destruction. We learn of so many sietches and locations that are in decline if not plainly abandoned, we see true division between the first followers of Muad'Dib whereas in Messiah its mostly just a degenerate priest class and those few plotters(and that fantastic monologue from Faruk). Hell even the smugglers are falling off, everything that once moved freely on Arrakis now stagnates under the weight of change. Change they can't stop no materr how much reverence they bestow upon Paul, Alia or the Preacher. Their faith punishes them with a cruel twist of the paradise they've desired for millenia.

Leto 2 is also far more damning a figure than Paul. Paul is a self resenting leader whose feelings of isolation and being trapped garner sympathy from the reader to the detriment of his vilification. Compare this to Leto, who doesn't Harbour guilt over the cost of the Golden path but embraces it. Leto is the consequence of Paul's ascension, a perfection of the KH powers that won him the throne. This is why I've long said that the Kwisats Haderach is nothing more than a controllable Abomination . It's why the BG detest Abominations so much, they are the dark reality of the sisterhood's ultimate goal,living proof that the thing they seek simply isn't possible in the form they desire it. Paul and Alia are both Abominations trapped and tormented by paths they are forced/bred into. Unlike Leto and Ghanima they still cling to the notion of singular identities atop a shared soul. The God Emperor would probably describe them best as Guilty Predators.

And probably the best showcase of this is the last chapter in the Throne Room. Naibs, far and wide who were once pillars of tradition and Fremen principles are reduced to dancing clowns, parading Leto with jewels and luxuries their ancestors would likely scoff at, men who've traded in their freedom for the cushion of empire. Even Stilgar is defeated, his spirit broken when The Atriedes monetize and mock the most sacred of Fremen rituals, giving one's water to the tribe by displaying Paul's water, his holy essence the same way a poacher would display a stuffed animal in their living room. Even the god he worships, Shai Hulud is now corrupted and forever tied to the power of the outsider, marking the end of any possibility the Fremen had of controlling their own destiny.

The man he loved like his own blood(Paul) ruined his people, and now the son of that man wears the skin of his Deity like Hercules wore the mane of the slain Nemean lion. His people reduced to another jewel in the imperial crown. That's Leto's ultimate power, not the worm body or the prescience . His ability to own what makes Arrakis special in a way no one else could, be they native or outsider. To make it a part of himself whilst ripping it away from those who've called the planet home forever. Leto isn't a lever of power or the holder/giver of it. He is power and those under him, from the Imperium to the Fremen to even his own family are nothing but soiled steps beneath his Throne,his Spice,his Arrakis, his Dune.

Reading an early section of GEoD really made me appreciate Leto’s character.

I've only seen the films and I was curious about a line said in part 2;

When Paul is about to ride the worm, Stilgar says "not that big". Are thumpers abled to be tuned to call certain sizes of worms? Or do they just attract whatever worm is closest? Follow up; does it only summon 1 or can a single thumper call multiple worms?

During a conversation between her and Taraza, Taraza uses the term referencing the quantity meaning of liberal. Odrade becomes angry and does not fully understand why, her thoughts are as follows:

"It was partly that word 'liberal', she realized. Atreides ancestors rose up in rebellion at the word. It was as though her accumulated female memories lashed out at the unconscious assumptions and unexamined prejudices behind the concept."

"Only liberals really think. Only liberals are intellectual. Only liberals understand the needs of their fellows.'

"How much viciousness lay concealed in that word! Odrade thought. How much secret ego demanding to feel superior."

This really felt completely unrelated to my understanding of the Atreides and their motivations. I don't remember even hearing the term in any prior book. Is this purely Frank's poorly inserted political opinions or did I miss something?

Disclaimer: I have not read Hunters or Sandworms of Dune yet, if the answer is in either book just say it’s in one of them and I’ll find out when I get there.

Re-reading Heretics of Dune and at the part where Lucilla says she is probing other memory to try and discover who built / why the Harkonnen no-globe was built and that she can’t see anything.

Obviously after Frank Herbert left the question unanswered potentially planning to do something more with it later but never having the chance, Brian Herbert wrote that it was made by The Baron himself and since the process involved no women, Lucilla would have no access to any memories of its construction or existence anyway.

But it made me think, can no-fields even be seen in other memory? Originally I thought yes because everyone can remember their own no-fields and so that would mean a Bene Gesserit would be able to remember an ancestors memory of the no-field. But because in the first trilogy prescience is partially made to seem as an extension of other memory where Paul, Leto and Ghanima are capable of prescience because of both the spice and them having full access to their genetic memory. Additionally other memory is written to seem a lot like prescience in the way Paul didn’t have full access to his prescience at all times and a Bene Gesserit does not always have access to all of her memories.

So is other memory less just having the memories of your ancestors and more like a reverse prescience in which you can see the past? And if that’s the case, would a Bene Gesserit be capable of seeing a no-field in other memory?

Finished today and what a fun kit to assemble and paint. Full wingspan is about 63 cm, but luckily the wings stay articulated after assembly and the kit comes with both an extended and retracted set of landing gear that's super easy to swap out. So I'm currently finishing up a little sandy landing pad base so I can display the model with folded wings in a cabinet. Mainly painted using acrylics, with some enamel pin washes and oils for panel lining and weathering. For the sand weathering I experimented on some spare parts to see what I could get away with using the materials on hand and finally I settled on mixing a white and light brown ceramic wash from Flory Models to get a sand tone and mixed in some extra sand coloured pigments and it came out rather nicely evenifIdosaysomyself. I'll definitely take some more photos when I finish the landed configuration base.

Hope you enjoy it as well!

I carved this a couple years ago and thought some of you might get a kick out of it.

Adapted from Frank Herbert's Hugo Award-winning novel and produced by Legendary Entertainment, Dune and Dune: Part Two have earned eight Academy Awards and continue to captivate global audiences with their visionary storytelling and cinematic experience. Now, Dune: Part Three brings Denis Villeneuve's landmark trilogy to its breath-taking final chapter. Grand in scale and intimate in emotion, Dune: Part Three delivers a powerful and poetic conclusion to one of the defining epics of our time.

The set is packed with incredible specials including MetX holofoil 1st Edition Rares, Ultra Rares & 1/1 Inserts.

• 60 Common Cards
• 60 Parallel Sand Cards 1:1
• 10 Character Cards 1/500, 1/100, 1/75, 1/50, 1/25, 1/10, 1/5, 1/1 - 1:24 Packs
• 10 MetalX All Metal Cards 1:480
• 6 Embossed Poster Cards 1:24
• 6 Chase Fremen Relic Cards 1:48 Packs
• 6 Box Topper Cards 1:24

Manufacturer release date: December 15, 2026

Will be interesting to hear people’s thoughts on this topic…

What is your prediction for the epigraph at the start of Dune: Part Three?

This topic has been tangentially discussed in some other posts but I wanted to make one specifically for predictions. Those of you who've read Dune: Messiah (and beyond): drop your thoughts below!

Some interesting theories I've seen in this sub and my own opinion:

WARNING: Messiah spoilers ahead

• Knowing the story, the epigraph in part three will most likely be related to the detriments of prescience or of blind messianic worship
• A popular theory is that the voice in Part 2 ("Power over spice is power over all") is that of Leto II. Keeping in line with this, I wonder what epigram he would use to describe his father's rule/failure to follow through with the Golden Path.
• Based on the fate of Paul Atreides in Messiah and CoD, I think the movie could open with a version of Nietzsche's quote: "Peer into the abyss and it will peer back into you." Something to convey that Paul has set dangerous events in motion which are beyond even his prescient prowess.
• Given that one of the villains in the movie will be Edric, a quote by the guild navigator would also fit in at the beginning. Perhaps along the lines of "Prescience makes you blind to the present" -- paraphrased from a comment by u/DagonG2021 from 2 years ago referring to a CoD quote

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but in the new tickets trailer, when Stilgar and Farok are standing in front of the sea, the music goes somewhere that sounds a lot more like Toto’s Main Title from the 84 film than anything Zimmer has done in this trilogy.

To be clear, it only lasts a few seconds, it’s not a full quote or anything. But it really feels like a wink to me, almost a little homage to the 84 score.

I remember people hearing a bit of Toto in Stillsuits back in 2021, even though Zimmer always says he never saw the Lynch film. And it would kind of make sense for Messiah, briefly evoking the old heroic theme right at the moment the jihad hits the sea and Farok starts losing faith.

No idea if it’s Zimmer or just someone at the trailer house who loves Toto. Guess we’ll know when the OST drops. Curious if I’m the only one hearing it.

(Proud of our national orchestra)