r/AcademicBiblical • • 6h ago

Weekly Open Discussion Thread

8 Upvotes

Welcome to this week's open discussion thread!

This thread is meant to be a place for members of the r/AcademicBiblical community to freely discuss topics of interest which would normally not be allowed on the subreddit. All off-topic and meta-discussion will be redirected to this thread.

Rules 1-3 do not apply in open discussion threads, but rule 4 will still be strictly enforced. Please report violations of Rule 4 using Reddit's report feature to notify the moderation team. Furthermore, while theological discussions are allowed in this thread, this is still an ecumenical community which welcomes and appreciates people of any and all faith positions and traditions. Therefore this thread is not a place for proselytization. Feel free to discuss your perspectives or beliefs on religious or philosophical matters, but do not preach to anyone in this space. Preaching and proselytizing will be removed.

In order to best see new discussions over the course of the week, please consider sorting this thread by "new" rather than "best" or "top". This way when someone wants to start a discussion on a new topic you will see it! Enjoy the open discussion thread!


r/AcademicBiblical • • 3h ago

Psalm 78:41

5 Upvotes

I don't know if this is the right place for this. But I was reading Ps 78:41 and the KJV version says "...... they vexed the Holy One of Israel" while NKJV says "..... And limited the Holy One of Israel". This feels like two completely different things one is talking about annoying God while the other is saying limiting God's power for them like in Matt 6:5-6. Don't know if someone more knowledgeable can help explain this


r/AcademicBiblical • • 5h ago

Question What’s your preferred translation and/or annotated edition?

4 Upvotes

Howdy y’all,

I’m in the market for my fifth Bible, but I wanted some guidance on what exactly to pick up. I figured who better to ask than the Bible scholars?

Right now I own an unannotated (outside of a couple minor translation notes) NRSV-CE, the Oxford Press NABRE Catholic Study Bible, a pocket KJV Bible, and the RSV2-CE Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.

What are my major blindspots? Should I be looking at the Jerusalem Bible and the Douay-Rheims? Are there any major Protestant translations I should also be looking at? Should I invest in an Orthodox Study Bible? What about secular notes?

I’m looking for something that will enrich my understanding of the text.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 17h ago

Discussion Is the case for John being the earliest Gospel stronger than it’s usually given credit for?

27 Upvotes

I’ve been reading George van Kooten’s recent research, particularly his 2025 papers and 2026 book Reverberations of Good News, where he challenges the conventional Gospel chronology and argues that John may have preceded the Synoptics.

I know Markan priority and a late first-century date for John remain the prevailing scholarly positions. But the more I’ve read about this, the more I’ve wondered whether the case for John being written first is stronger than it’s usually given credit for.

There are three things I’m particularly interested in.

1. John 5:2 and the case for a pre-70 date

I know the grammatical arguments surrounding ἔστιν in John 5:2 have already been discussed quite a bit here, so I don’t want to rehash the entire debate.

Personally, I find Van Kooten’s 2025 argument pretty convincing. What interests me is that he doesn’t simply argue that εἰμί cannot function as a historical present. He examines the broader Greek geographical construction and compares it with similar descriptions in ancient Greek literature.

To me, that seems stronger than the general objection that John frequently uses historical presents. Combined with his argument that the five porticoes were probably destroyed during the Jewish War, I think there’s a reasonable case that John 5:2 describes the pool as it existed when the author was writing.

Of course, this could reflect an earlier source incorporated into a later Gospel. But I’m not convinced that’s necessarily the better explanation, especially if the present-tense description belongs to the narrator’s own geographical commentary.

2. Could John have preceded the Synoptics?

Van Kooten also argues that Luke used John as a written source and that Matthew shows signs of Johannine influence.

One example I find particularly interesting is Matthew 11:27/Luke 10:22 and their similarity to John’s presentation of Jesus’ unique relationship with the Father.

I’m aware that Mark Goodacre and James Barker have recently argued in the opposite direction, suggesting that John knew and reworked the Synoptics.

Which proposed Johannine parallels contain identifiable Matthean or Lukan editorial features that favor the direction of dependence, rather than merely showing that the Gospels share traditions?
I’m particularly curious whether the literary evidence independently establishes the direction of dependence, or whether the conventional dating of the Gospels plays a substantial role.

I’m also interested in how Van Kooten’s reconstruction accounts for Mark. Even if John was written before 70 CE, that wouldn’t automatically establish that it preceded Mark, since Mark is often dated around 65–75 CE, with some scholars favoring an earlier date.

What are the strongest arguments specifically against John preceding Mark, apart from the conventional chronology?

3. John’s historical setting and Christology

John preserves some remarkably specific geographical details about pre-70 Jerusalem, including the Pools of Bethesda and Siloam.

Accurate geographical knowledge doesn’t necessarily establish an early composition date, since a later author could have visited Jerusalem before its destruction or inherited earlier testimony. Still, combined with John 5:2, I wonder whether this strengthens the possibility of an early written John.

John 11:48 also refers to the possibility that the Romans will destroy the holy place and nation, yet the Gospel never explicitly acknowledges Jerusalem’s destruction as an accomplished event. I know arguments from silence are limited, but could this have some cumulative significance?

Another consideration is John’s Christology. I’ve encountered arguments that its comparatively explicit presentation of Jesus’ divine identity favors a late date. But Paul’s undisputed letters already contain elevated claims about Jesus in the 50s CE, and Matthew 11:27/Luke 10:22 preserve ideas that seem remarkably Johannine.

It seems difficult to use theological sophistication as independent evidence for late composition when these kinds of beliefs were already circulating so early.

I know scholars such as Raymond Brown have proposed different stages of Johannine composition, and an early source incorporated into a later Gospel could explain some of these features.

But how do scholars distinguish that possibility from an early Gospel that was subsequently edited or expanded? Is there evidence that specifically favors one reconstruction?

⸻

My broader question is whether some arguments for dating John last rely on assumptions that reinforce one another, particularly concerning literary dependence, theological development, and the Gospel’s historical setting.

What is the strongest positive evidence that John was written after the Synoptics, rather than simply evidence compatible with a later date?

And for anyone familiar with Van Kooten’s recent work, has his reconstruction received much scholarly engagement? What do scholars consider the strongest objections to Johannine priority?

Sources:

George van Kooten, “The Pre-70 CE Dating of the Gospel of John,” New Testament Studies 71 (2025), 29–55. https://doi.org/10.1017/S0028688524000213

George van Kooten, “An Archimedean Point for Dating the Gospels,” Novum Testamentum 67 (2025). https://doi.org/10.1163/15685365-bja10101

George van Kooten, Reverberations of Good News: The Gospels in Context, Then and Now (2026).

Daniel B. Wallace, “John 5:2 and the Date of the Fourth Gospel,” Biblica 71 (1990), 177–205.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 16h ago

Question Christology of the Synoptics

13 Upvotes

Do the Synoptic Gospels contain a high Christology comparable to John?

How does the Christology of the Synoptics differ from John and/or Paul?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 23h ago

Significance of Dead Sea Scrolls for understanding of social and cultural context of early Christianity

21 Upvotes

I'm interested in learning more about this subject. Can anyone recommend a book(s) or other source(s) that I can study?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 19h ago

Question Is 'The Gnostic Bible' by Willis Barnstone and Marvin Meyer reliable?

5 Upvotes

r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Question Pre-Pauline

17 Upvotes

On what basis are scholars able to claim that certain elements within Paul’s texts predate Paul himself?

examples:1 Corinthians 15:3–7,Philippians 2:6–11


r/AcademicBiblical • • 21h ago

Question about 2 Peter 1:1-2

5 Upvotes

SBL Greek New Testament:
1 Συμεὼν Πέτρος δοῦλος καὶ ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ· 2 χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη πληθυνθείη ἐν ἐπιγνώσει τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν.

NRSVue:
1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith as equally honorable as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 May grace and peace be yours in abundance in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

ESV:
1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

My question is: Given that 2 Peter 1:2 distinguishes between God and Jesus, shouldn't 2 Peter 1:1 be translated as "our God and the Savior Jesus Christ"?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

The impact of the Jewish War on Christianity and the Gospels?

23 Upvotes

Does anyone know of sources that emphasize the impact of the Jewish revolt against Rome (usually dated 66 - 70 CE?) on the formation of Christianity and the writings of the early followers of Jesus, including what became the New Testament Gospels? Most New Testament scholars seem to agree that Mark was the first of the four canonical Gospels, and they date it to the time right around the Jewish War. And yet most of the reading I've done, while acknowledging the war, doesn't tend to emphasize the impact of that war on either Temple-based Judaism or early Christianity. I gather it was a quite cataclysmic period and ultimately a seismic shift, and this even seems to be reflected to some degree in the Gospels, but I'm wondering if there are scholars who have explored this facet to a greater degree than I've as yet discovered.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Question What is Azazel's relationship with Lucifer? What was Azazel's role in hell?

35 Upvotes

Sometimes I see Azazel be described as Lucifer's son, or "The second ruler of hell" and I'm wondering how accurate that is.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Question Have there been any relatively recent discoveries in regard to the Dead Sea Scrolls?

15 Upvotes

r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Question Reactions to Finegan (JSNT 2026) on porneia in Matt 5:32/19:9 and the betrothal view?

5 Upvotes

I’ve been working through Thomas Finegan’s new article and would like to hear how others are reacting to it.

Finegan, Thomas. “Specifying Πορνεία in Matthew 5.32 and 19.9 via Overlooked Contextualization.” Journal for the Study of the New Testament 49.1 (2026): 198-222. https://doi.org/10.1177/0142064X261432678

Some questions I have:

  1. Were the Pharisees concerned with divorcing betrothed women when they brought the question to Jesus?

  2. Can the exception clause cover both betrothal and consummated marriage?

  3. How common was divorce during betrothal in the first century?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 2d ago

What does Paul mean when he says Y is "in" X?

33 Upvotes

Christians being "in Christ" and sinners being "in Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:22), or the Israelites being "in Moses" (1 Corinthians 10:2). Does Paul think in terms of covenant here, Adam, Moses, and Jesus being the respective "federal heads" of their covenants with God? Or does he mean to speak of some sort of solidarity with them, a mystical union of some sorts, or something else? Paul seems to see baptism as incorporating persons into Christ, and even speaks of the crossing of the red sea as incorporating the Israelites into Moses as a kind of baptism, but what incorporated us into Adam in the first place?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Question Are the Barsabbas brothers actually Jesus' brothers

4 Upvotes

Has anyone suggested that Justus Barsabbas and Judas Barsabbas are actually Jesus' brothers Joses and Jude? It would explain why Joses seems to disappear outside of Mark and why Judas Barsabbas doesn't seem to exist either.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Samson and the lion

7 Upvotes

Recently I read the Judges, and I came across the story of Samson and the lion. I tried to imagine the scenario, but honestly I couldn't came up with any specific way in which would Samson ( empowered) tore the lion. Only clue is that it was easy as ripping a young goat. It's detail, of course, but I don't think he actually ripped it's jaws as interpreted in many paintings and pictures, because that doesn't kill the animal instantly and It doesn't have the power behind it as ,,he ripped it as a young goat " , so I think it must've been different way, probably legs were flying, or he just wrenched him open so much it died in an instant. It's just my stupid theory, if you are not interested in it, don't try to imagine it its gross... but if you would like to help me understand it, what do you think was the way he had done it ?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 1d ago

Question Best physical translations of Mandaean texts?

2 Upvotes

r/AcademicBiblical • • 2d ago

Table of nations, mystery people and the globe

12 Upvotes

As I understand it the table of nations has like 10-20 mystery people we can't locate.

Im trying to tie these people to the old world definitively, for example Solomon's ships sail to meet the one of the groups found in the table who can't be identified.

Nominal examples:

  • Magog: Gog invades Israel from there (Ezekiel 38–39)
  • Elishah: sells cloth to Tyre (Ezekiel 27:7)
  • Havilah: Saul’s battle range (1 Samuel 15:7); also Genesis 2:11 and 25:18
  • Ludim: soldiers in Egypt’s army (Jeremiah 46:9)
  • Pathrusim: Pathros, where Jews were living (Jeremiah 44:1)
  • Uz: Job’s homeland; its kings drink the cup (Jeremiah 25:20); linked with Edom (Lamentations 4:21)
  • Lud: mercenaries for Tyre (Ezekiel 27:10)
  • Uzal: trades with Tyre (Ezekiel 27:19)
  • Ophir: Solomon’s ships sail there
  • Lehabim: possibly the Lubim (Libyans) in Shishak’s army (2 Chronicles 12:3), if the identification holds

Im looking to confirm all of them can be locked into old world locations. ( I don't think they reference native americans, but im looking to prove there old world only)

Is there a definitive, proof for this.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 2d ago

How do we know the dates of the NT-Books?

25 Upvotes

How do we know that the letters of Paul were written around 50 CE and that the gospels were written in the first century? What are the dating methods there?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 2d ago

Question Luke-Acts One Author

6 Upvotes

With Marcion priority being a common hypothesis, and there being another common hypothesis that Acts has a separate author who also added stuff to "Proto-Luke": has anyone tried to do a stylometric analysis of Luke, Acts and Marcion's Gospel together to see if it can be shown that there was a second author? I always found it strange how "revolutionary" a lot of the stuff that's missing in Marcion's gospel is.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 2d ago

Question Luke and Acts

1 Upvotes

What are the best commentaries on the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 3d ago

Question The Genesis Flood Narratives and Ancient Near Eastern Precedents: Textual Reliance, Differences, and Composition Context

7 Upvotes

Hello everyone,

I am looking for academic perspectives on the relationship between the Genesis flood narrative (Genesis 6–9) and earlier Mesopotamian flood stories (such as the Epic of Gilgamesh, Tablet XI, and the Epic of Atrahasis).

Given the broad historical consensus that there is no geological evidence for a global flood, nor structural feasibility for a wooden vessel of the dimensions described in Genesis (e.g., naval engineering studies showing limits on wooden hull stability), I am interested in how modern biblical scholarship understands this text's formation.

Specifically, I would appreciate insights on:

- Textual Parallels and Differences: Beyond the obvious similarities (e.g., building an ark, sending out birds like raven/dove, sacrifice after landing, divine retribution/rescue), what are the main theological or structural divergences between the Mesopotamian myths and the Hebrew account?

- Date and Context of Composition: What are the current leading theories regarding the dating of the Genesis flood narrative (P and J sources / Exilic or Post-Exilic context)? How did exposure to Babylonian literature influence the biblical authors?

- Genre and Literary Intent: From an Ancient Near Eastern context, was the Genesis narrative intended by its authors as a literal historiographical account, or rather as an polemical reinterpretation/adaptation of existing Near Eastern mythologies to convey a distinct monotheistic theology?

Could you please recommend scholarly sources, commentators, or books (e.g., John Walton, David Damrosch, Irving Finkel) addressing these questions? Or any answer ?

Thank you!


r/AcademicBiblical • • 3d ago

Question Genisis

7 Upvotes

Can somebody please explain or give context to Genisis 19: 36-38

36 Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father

37 The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day.

38 The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben-ammi. He is the father of the Ammonites to this day.


r/AcademicBiblical • • 2d ago

PSA rejectors and Romans 3:25

0 Upvotes

I know there are a wave of scholars who reject the idea of penal substitutionary atonement (PSA) as a Biblical concept, saying it's an invention of Western Christianity. How do those scholars tend to deal with what's said in Romans 3:25, that "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith" (NIV)?


r/AcademicBiblical • • 3d ago

Question If the name Moses derives from Egyptian naming conventions, how did it survive for centuries until being written down? Is this feasible?

18 Upvotes