r/Overseas_Pakistani • • Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

41 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 6h ago

Miscellaneous | مزید My mom's Pakistani driving licence from 1985.

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر I am so confused how does Nadra actually contact me and tell me exactly what they need?

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1 Upvotes

I have already opened a complaint two times and no response. This is my daughter's nicop that I am applying for the first time she is 6 months old. I have attached the image as when I click on the application this is what I get, I am so confused even though when I go to edit the application there's no option for any forms for me to upload, please advice!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 9h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Pakistani wife of an Italian citizen: real timeline for the family visa from Islamabad?

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0 Upvotes

Hi everyone, asking for a family member. She's Pakistani and isn't married yet but has a rishta (a marriage proposal) with a man who is an Italian citizen living in Italy. The plan is that he comes to Pakistan for the nikah, they register the marriage in Italy, and then she applies for the national D visa for family reasons at the Italian Embassy in Islamabad. From what we understand, the Nikah Nama, NADRA MRC and FRC get apostilled by MOFA, translated into Italian and transcribed at his comune, then the appointment is requested by PEC, and the visa is free with no income or housing proof needed. For those who've done this recently: how long did the comune transcription take, and did you go through the embassy or send it directly? How long after the PEC did you get an appointment, and how long until the visa was in hand? Did the Italian spouse need to do pubblicazioni (banns) at his comune before the nikah? What documents did he need for the nikah and Union Council/NADRA registration? Did the embassy reject anything, and what was your total time from nikah to landing in Italy? Any mistakes to avoid would really help.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 14h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Passport delayed

2 Upvotes

Salam folks,
I am in a bit of a pickle and was wondering if anyone has some advice.
I applied for my very first Pakistan passport at the Pakistani embassy in Washington D.C. on July 6th. It states that the processing time is anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks. However, I still haven’t gotten mine. it’s about to be close to 4 months and nothing. I need it to register for Hajj before November 20th. Does anyone have any advice to whom I might be able to contact to expedite my application?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Overseas application form submission JSMU

1 Upvotes

I've fille out the jsmu overseas form but I'm. Unable to pay the fee since it's in usd and I contacted leopards courier they're not able to accept the payment. Maybe uve tried it and knows how to. Do it


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Getting a pakistani sim to open a bank account

0 Upvotes

I've been told I have to get a pakistani sim to open a bank account there and you can open the banking app as well but what happens after you leave Pakistan?

Can you still manage your account using the app from abroad?

What happens to the pakistani sim/number when you leave PK?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید I don't have any attraction towards pakistani women.

0 Upvotes

This may offend some Desi women but I know everyone has their own preferences etc I am Pakistani and i grew up in various countries I have never found Pakistani women attractive. it's just something about them that gives me the ick, Im not trying to be a colorist/racist, this is just something I have noticed. Now that I'm trying to get married my mom is always sending me rishtas of pakistani women who I have no attraction to whatsoever but she is really adamant about me marrying a Pakistani woman. How can I convince her to let me marry a woman from another country/background My parents really want me to marry a pakistani but I just can't seem to get my head around it as I have no attraction to them at all. I feel empty and lost.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Has anyone ever used the PakID app to renew their NICOP?

2 Upvotes

For those who have used the Pak ID app to renew their NICOP as opposed to going to the consulate in person to renew, what has your experience been?

Has it been swift, safe and easy to do?

Please share your experiences.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Stuck in pakistan because UAE is not granting me visa

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر new nicop help

1 Upvotes

hi! i moved to usa when i was 16 and had no cnic at the time. right now i only have my expired passport and am trying to renew it. before i do that i need to get a new nicop. when i use the pakid app, it makes me take a picture of myself but then gives me the error “photograph is not availed in citizen database” any idea how to fix that?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Finance | معاشی Should I borrow gold or silver to pay for 12k euro blocked account amount to finance myself in germany.

1 Upvotes

I’m planning to study in Germany, but my family isn’t financially well-off and we can’t afford to take out a loan. I need to deposit €11,904 into a blocked account, which would then pay me approximately €982 per month for a year to cover my living expenses while studying.

My father’s childhood friend has kindly offered to help. He’s willing to sell some of his gold or silver to provide the money I need. In return, I would repay him with the same quantity of gold or silver by weight, rather than a fixed amount of money, as soon as possible.

My plan is to repay him within one year. I intend to work part-time for up to 20 hours per week while studying in Germany. Ideally, I would use the monthly blocked-account payouts to cover my living expenses and save a portion of my earnings to buy back the same quantity of precious metal and return it to him.

However, I’m unsure whether borrowing against gold or silver would be the better option. Silver has been particularly volatile this year, while gold seems relatively more stable, although its price fluctuates too.

My questions are:

  • Would it be better to borrow gold or silver under these circumstances?
  • Which option would carry less financial risk over the next 12 months if I have to repay the exact same weight?
  • Is there a better or safer alternative I should consider, given my financial situation?

I’d really appreciate advice from anyone familiar with precious metals, personal finance, or the financial realities of studying in Germany as an international student. I want to make a responsible decision without putting my family or my father’s friend in a difficult position.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Does anyone know a good, trustworthy property lawyer in Gujrat?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Pakistan Departure – Latest Vaccine Requirements for Canada/USA?

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

META [ Removed by Reddit ]

1 Upvotes

[ Removed by Reddit on account of violating the content policy. ]


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Should I get my Pakistani passport before or after Nikah for Canadian spousal sponsorship?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Visiting Pakistan with European wife

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 8d ago

Finance | معاشی Quick Fix for Failed Transactions on Pakistani Banking Apps Abroad

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید hey guyss!

3 Upvotes

i study in liverpool but live in manchester! kinda missing hanging out with pakistani people and was wondering whether there is anyone in this sub who lives nearby.

i study comp sci and in my free time i like to read books, go to the gym and cafe hopping. also i am interested in improving my urdu skills so it would be nice to meet someone who could help out (i really wanna be able to read books in urdu) and also would like some recommendations

lmk if anyone is interested in befriending each other :))


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 9d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Letter of entitlement from driver licensing authority

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر I have to registered my phone on PTA overseas temporary registration

2 Upvotes

Asalamoalikum Everyone! Anyone recently registered his/her phone via overseas temporary registration on PTA website? I have tried from both my IPhone and android tab but dirbs.pta.gov.pk is unreachable. My flight is tomorrow and I really need this to work. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

P.s: Data roaming is already on and there no physical sim both E sims are active.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Finance | معاشی Anyone purchased are car through a sceheme, Apna roshan?

1 Upvotes

salaams people

Has anyone purchased a car through a bank scheme or a dealer on instalments perhaps?

I would like to know if it was easy, straight forward, and issues and pitfalls I need to be aware off etc? I

want something around 70/80 lakh mark and want to put a deposit down of 50%.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر DOB issue in the NICOP of a 3-month-old

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I hope you are all doing well. I recently applied for a NICOP for my son, who is almost 3.5 months old, via the executive service on the PakID application. When I received the card, it had the wrong date of birth, with a difference of only three days.

I tried to modify the NICOP on PakID, but it requires a liveness check, and every time I attempt to take a photo, it is not accepted. I requested that my father in Pakistan visit NADRA, and they said the error could be fixed upon arrival in Pakistan; they said the same thing when I registered an online complaint. Now they are saying I can travel with this NICOP despite the incorrect date of birth. I am traveling next month, and because their app is so poor, I am unable to modify it. Should I travel with this NICOP and explain the mistake? I uploaded his foreign passport and birth certificate with the application, but they still made the error.

Regardless, should I travel with NICOP or apply for a visa? I started applying for the visa now, but their website is not accepting his post office photo that meets passport standards.

Any advice would be appreciated.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 11d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Turning emotionally unavailable

0 Upvotes

Hi, I’m male 26 going through the arranged marriage rishta process, and even when there are very good prospects, with me working in my field while pursuing my studies and my father having a well-established business, I’m constantly asked how long it will take me to get my passport.
Alhamdulillah, getting citizenship is very much a possibility given my current trajectory, but these questions are making me feel emotionally unavailable for my future wife.
I’ve already declined two proposals simply because the families directly asked about my residency status and passport timeline. I understand that these things matter when considering marriage, but being asked about them so early makes me feel like I’m being valued for my immigration prospects rather than who I am as a person.
I feel like I’m being used, and honestly, I don’t know how to deal with this feeling.
I know that if I get married, I can be a very good provider, but I’m worried that I won’t be a good partner because this whole process is making me emotionally guarded.
What should I do? Am I overthinking this, or is it understandable to feel this way?