Spicy one for you. Prepare the downvotes.

People keep saying not to balance the game for PvP because that's how you end up with homogenized classes. Those same people will beg for their hybrids to do within 5% dps of pure DPS classes and then demand that each class bring it's own unique raid buff because otherwise "they won't get invited to raid".

When the first raid is out, people are going to beg for nerfs and buffs based on parses and overall damage. "B-b-but it's not fair that rogue has no AoE when the hardest boss is an AoE fight!!" another class will say "I have ZERO mobility! I can't keep up with bosses anymore I need heroic leap or something" and so on and so forth. People will go on and on about how they need the same tools as X class because they don't get invited to raids or they get passed up for on loot. These will be massively upvoted threads. This is why PvP in retail feels like a M+ cleave fest now where everyone has a heal, a defensive, and a "go". Not because of PvP-specific balance, but because of PvE balance.

^^ This is what causes homogenization in the game btw. Not PvP. PvP is the one area of the game where a reduction in homogenization actually makes classes stronger and stand out more. Warrior gets stuck in roots? Get a paladin to cleanse them. Fine tuned DPS numbers don't matter when a class is using it's entire kit in an fight.

horde was already way worse than alliance almost in terms of each situation and now i got hyped when i saw the title at first ''Racial Ability Tuning Pass for WoW: Forever'' after i read all of the changes it is complete disaster. Where the hell is Undead tuning? Orc is now literally one of the worse races to pick, and yeah awesome they gave taurens move movement speed but what else? It has literally no combat specific stuff atm. This tuning is complete joke and needs to be fix asap before release. Alliance > Horde by every means rn

https://mythicsim.com/wow-forever/races?class=warrior&spec=warrior

over half the specs gnomes/nelf/human are topping the charts and tauren is 2% less dps on some specs. Who ever is in charge of these racials changes are smoking crack

With these last racials nerfs to horde do you realize that not only you are nerfing the racials you are also screwing horde over majorly in faction balance.

Horde already looked weaker than alliance for PvE after the last racial nerfs but now horde are just completely dead and we are going to loose alot of horde players.

To quote your own words “ As we approach the launch of WoW Forever, we’ve been reflecting on feedback we’ve heard on racial abilities and passive traits: Some players have expressed that some of the new racial traits feel too generic, while others have raised concerns that some are objectively stronger than others “

With this statement you just decided to remove crit % from orc while keeping it on Humans. You also said that hit% is to strong on tauren but gave it to dwarfs. Night elfs racials already is insanely strong and havent been touched.

Please blizzard it is not too late to change this. Go back to what the racials looked before this. Horde was still weaker than alliance but atleast good enough to be okay.

This is absolutely insane and i cant believe how this even got a ok to go through with.

I have played wow for over 20 years and this by far is one of the worst changes you have made so far imo, this not only affect racials this is going to affect where people decide to play and faction balance is going to take a huge hit on this…

My solution is honestly just go back to how things were or in full reality delete anything dps related to racials and keep every racial on an even playing field but add some fun racials instead that doesnt affect anything in reality.

🤔🤔

Cannot believe this is blizz "solution" to racials

Seriously who in the team is on racials - that person needs to be removed yesterday. Clearly has no idea about classic nor balance

The racials in themselves aren't the issue; it's the lack of vision, competence and understanding that is very scary for the rest of forever development. Not the mention the heavy ally favorism in all development so far.

At least tauren can run away fast if they see an ally

What are your thoughts on today's disaster changes?

They need to make human give 1% crit and 1% crit damage. Why is gnome snare an immunity. They should get rid of the immunity part like they did for orc and undead. Skyelfs needs to be 2% haste and the alliance version needs the mana regen nerfed in half. This one I could leave or take but why does the horde skelf speed not stack and the nelf speed stacks? Dwarf and Tauren need to get 1% hit and 1% crit damage instead. Undead was completely gutted because of aoe farm. They should just make touch of the grave an instant cast mark off the gcd and keep the old internal cooldown so it is only single target. They need to nerf or change entirely either the human stun trinket or perception. Having 2 really good PvP racials is a bit much.

This whole idea that dungeons should give you 1xp a mob and you should just HaVe FuN there is patently absurd. Even you dont spend all your time staring at scenery killing mobs that dont give you anything valuable.

How did we even get to this point? Is it just one bot server farm of brain dead AIs? Severely cutting exp feels bad. Having no real benefit to doing a dungeon xp wise means you take forever to find a party and you spend most of your time running around and waiting.

You dont speak for anyone but yourself justifying that nonsense. Hell, you ​probably shouldn't legally be allowed to speak for yourself.

I understand not all the changes were terrible, but if this is the final pass with racials not seeing any changes after launch… Yikes.

It adds a little fun and flavour! Tauren can run 60% faster? Sky Elves get a 15% movement speed boost? So what? Good for them!

It opens up new possibilities. I’m tired of seeing humans and orcs make up 30% of their respective factions.

Seeing social media flooded with things about how people will be upset with min/maxxers requiring certain specs or whatever to raid etc.

People will play how they want also just make your own raid or form your own guild without the min/maxxing mentality problem solved?

It doesn’t affect anyone unless they allow it.

DPS racials are now toned down which is a good thing. You no longer feel FORCED to play a race if you raid.

Most of the complaints I see are from Orcs, Human and pay to win SKELVE parsers which are still in no way weak and everyone going 2 or 3 races for PVE would have been horrible anyways. Variety is a nice thing. The world of Azeroth is a much better place with all the races around and people Playing what they actually like.

Can anyone honestly say vanilla was in a good state? "If you can be orc be orc". What a great state of play that was for us Horde...Alliance was "if you want to raid you have to go human for melee". Wow how fun. Whenever something is FORCED it feels horrible and I feel like we have decent choices now for each class.

If you only wanted to be a race to be "op" you probably didn't really want to play it anyways.

Human: Stun Trinket + Perception

NE: Shadowmeld + Wisp + maybe movespeed

Gnome: Engineering + Escape Artist

Dorf: Treasure Hunter + Stoneform

Orc: Shatter Curse + Stun Resist

Tauren: Cultivation or Plainsrunning + War Stomp

Undead: Canni + Underwater Breathing + WOTF

Troll: Rapid Regeneration + Regeneration

SkElf: Glide + Leyline/Skysight (nerfed)

I was so happy that I finally don't have to feel bad about NOT playing Orc as a BM hunter or Demo Warlock. This racial has always been cringe. "Oh you want to play a pet spec? Better pick this race if you want to be optimal". I HATE IT.

EDIT: Stop telling me not to min/max, im playing tauren hunter anyway

Combat racials suck. The flavor of the racials are better.

Horde ftw.

Title says it all. Some of you dweebs are legitimately letting a racial ability dictate whether you enjoy the game or even play it at all. Just play the game. If it’s about min maxing- pick that race and be happy. If it’s for looks- pick that race and be happy. Just be happy. It’s a video game that’s supposed to bring you peace and a disconnect from reality— yet some of you treat this like a job.

I appreciate that you listen to the community, but honestly it feels like youre not confident in your own direction. You hear the complaints, you tweak things a little, and then new complaints show up. Surprise surprise, there will ALWAYS be complaints. That's just part of running a game this big.

I want you to own it. have your own vision of what this game should be and stick to it. Of course, keep listening. Some feedback really is objectively good. But filter it, is there real reasoning behind it and does it fit where you want the game to go?

Players are great at telling you how something feels, but not always at telling you what the fix should be. That's your job. And even people who disagree with a decision will respect it more when it’s clearly intentional rather than a half step back after the first wave of backlash.

It's still early and im sure you’ll get it right if you care. I just want to see a team that knows what they are doing, steering the ship with confidence. I want to believe in the captain.

EDIT: People are completely msising the point. I didn't say to not listen to feedback but to filter it. We don't want a situation where theres too many cooks in the kitchen or devs that don't listen to the community at all. There is a balance.

Note: I'm not saying these talents should be in the current version of the game, this post is just to discuss fun talent ideas and cool design!

I was planning to play Human Warrior but seeing the latest nerfs made me wonder if these devs ever played WoW in their lives, nerfing crit by 50%???
WTF are these devs even smoking?
Like i would understand if they nerf crit by 10% or MAYBE 20% but 50%?!?! How am I supposed to generate any rage now?
Yeah im done with the game until they revert the crit nerf or until Nov. 4

Plainsrunning at 60% speed. Absolutely perfect for bots to farm the entire continent before your character finishes loading.

Weapon skills? Removed. Except for ONE race. DWARVES. Apparently, the Mountain King himself personally negotiated a weapon skill exemption.

Human critical strike chance? Nerfed to 1%.

Orc critical strike chance? 0%. Not 1%. ZERO. Thrall personally confiscated your ability to crit.

Oh, and they brought Command back for Orcs, so now every Hunter has to play an Orc if they want to be competitive. Congratulations, your class fantasy is now being a green dude with a pet. Better hope you like Horde.

And this is the THIRD TIME they've changed the racials, and the game hasn't even been released yet. We're not even playing the game anymore; we're beta testing the devs' ability to make up their minds.

At this point, I'm convinced the devs are balancing the game by throwing darts at a whiteboard while blindfolded.

The bots are eating good, the players are eating dirt, the dwarves are the chosen people, and every Hunter is being drafted into the Horde.

10/10 game design. Can't wait for the next patch where they remove auto-attack but only for Night Elves.

I think that's a good idea but I don't know if they would implement it because I can imagine a decent amount of PVP players will want to use the RP-PVP server to create their alts in opposed factions.

What do you all think, realistically?

Buzzword of the month

3% haste was over the top. Read ley lines had absolutely busted skill interactions. They’re in a reasonable spot now.

Some of you people are so against anyone who even mentions the thought of attempting to be efficient it gets pretty comical. People play for their own reasons. If you are toxic on either side of this argument you desperately need to go outside. Some play for vibes, some play to challenge themselves by doing things to the best of their ability.

This change might make orc the strongest race for hunter and lock. This goes against the wow forever design philosophy of alliance favouritism.